Marvin Hagler Overrated Legacy?

[sonnyboyx2]

Finnegan did not "by all accounts" handle Hagler easily. The first fight was even and Hagler was clearly ahead in the second. Finnegan was also tough as nails and would gave many a middleweight a hard fight. Please provide a source for Hagler cutting him with headbutts.

Incidentally, for someone so attuned to ducking, hand-picking of opponents and other controversies, I'm surprised your only assessment of Ray Leonard is "pure class"...

i would like to know how you came across your imformation about the Finnigan vs Hagler fights... in 1980 i was at a boxing evening where Mickey Duff the British promoter was speaking, it was he who told the audience about how the Finnigan vs Hagler fights unfolded, i do know that there is no footage available of these fights so i just passed on what i heard from Duff who was at the fight in Boston, it is by no means `carved in stone` as 100% fact of what happened but if you have evidence to verify your claim that the fight was even and that Hagler was clearly ahead in the 2nd i would be grateful of it.

[TheGreatA]

i would like to know how you came across your imformation about the Finnigan vs Hagler fights... in 1980 i was at a boxing evening where Mickey Duff the British promoter was speaking, it was he who told the audience about how the Finnigan vs Hagler fights unfolded, i do know that there is no footage available of these fights so i just passed on what i heard from Duff who was at the fight in Boston, it is by no means `carved in stone` as 100% fact of what happened but if you have evidence to verify your claim that the fight was even and that Hagler was clearly ahead in the 2nd i would be grateful of it.

FINNEGAN- A MAN OF COURAGE.



BOSTON- March 4: Britain’s former middleweight champion Kevin Finnegan fought superbly against fearsome-punching Boston contender Marvin Hagler before being forced to retire after eight rounds, his face covered in blood from five cuts.


Finnegan (11- was cut over both eyes, on the forehead, and under his left eye, but it was the shocking two-inch split on his left cheekbone which compelled cornermen Freddie Hill and Mickey Duff to retire him.


In all, he needed 20 stitches. “His cheek was laid open almost to the bone,” said Mickey Duff. “He couldn’t have carried on.”

“But the fans loved him and they want him back for a rematch as soon as the cuts heal.” Finnegan’s purse was reported to be £5,000, but he can look for much more in the return.


Southpaw Hagler (11-4) was leading by just one point on the referee’s card at the end of the eighth, but he had lost the last two rounds clearly as Finnegan attacked steadily.

Hagler’s powerful hooking put him in control early on, but after being cut badly in the second, Finnegan became more aggressive. The Boston crowd rose to him as, blood dripping down his chest, he smashed back at Hagler with right-handers.

Hagler was shaken by rights in the sixth and seventh, but when a head-clash in the seventh opened up a gash on Finnegan’s cheek it became apparent that he would not be able to complete the 10 rounds.

Finnegan attacked throughout the seventh and eighth, winning both big but his retirement was almost inevitable as the blood continued to flow.

The fight attracted 5,300 spectators, paying $42,950. The severe weather in the Boston area probably kept the attendance down.

CUTS AGAIN STOP FINNEGAN


BOSTON- May 13: Britain’s former middleweight champion, was beaten for the second time on cuts by local middleweight contender Marvin Hagler at the Boston Garden.

Cornerman Mickey Duff retired Finnegan at the end of the sixth round with Kevin’s face a mess of blood from a variety of cuts. The finish was similar to their first meeting 10 weeks ago, when Finnegan was pulled out after eight rounds.

Finnegan gave Hagler a tremendous battle first time around, but failed to reproduce that form. Kevin has never been on the canvas as an amateur or pro, and he was never in any danger of being floored or halted here, other than on cuts. But he was fighting uphill all the way after a clash of heads reopened old scar tissue on his left cheekbone in the opening round.

Finnegan boxed coolly and countered well but the shaven-skulled Hagler kept driving him back against the ropes with a two-handed barrage.

The decisive flurry came midway through the sixth, when Hagler opened cuts above and below Kevin’s left eye.

“The important cut was the one-inch break at the corner of the scar on Kevin’ cheekbone,” Mickey Duff said. “It was certain to spread further and I didn’t want to see him go through that.”

[Kid McCoy]

i would like to know how you came across your imformation about the Finnigan vs Hagler fights... in 1980 i was at a boxing evening where Mickey Duff the British promoter was speaking, it was he who told the audience about how the Finnigan vs Hagler fights unfolded, i do know that there is no footage available of these fights so i just passed on what i heard from Duff who was at the fight in Boston, it is by no means `carved in stone` as 100% fact of what happened but if you have evidence to verify your claim that the fight was even and that Hagler was clearly ahead in the 2nd i would be grateful of it.

Mickey Duff also said Lennox Lewis is the best heavyweight since Ali and I'm sure wouldn't agree with that.

I don't have it to hand at the moment, but Ring Magazine said the first fight was a riproaring contest and level after eight rounds and if I remember rightly it was Duff himself who asked the Doc to stop it. Hagler apparently improved significantly for the second contest and was well ahead when it was stopped, which is from various accounts in boxing mags. Which are the "all accounts" you've read which have Finnegan handling Hagler easily?

[MANGLER]

**** thread. Hagler earned his accolades. Every fighter gets **** on by at least a few people on here no matter what he does.

[sonnyboyx2]

FINNEGAN- A MAN OF COURAGE.



BOSTON- March 4: Britain’s former middleweight champion Kevin Finnegan fought superbly against fearsome-punching Boston contender Marvin Hagler before being forced to retire after eight rounds, his face covered in blood from five cuts.


Finnegan (11- was cut over both eyes, on the forehead, and under his left eye, but it was the shocking two-inch split on his left cheekbone which compelled cornermen Freddie Hill and Mickey Duff to retire him.


In all, he needed 20 stitches. “His cheek was laid open almost to the bone,” said Mickey Duff. “He couldn’t have carried on.”

“But the fans loved him and they want him back for a rematch as soon as the cuts heal.” Finnegan’s purse was reported to be £5,000, but he can look for much more in the return.


Southpaw Hagler (11-4) was leading by just one point on the referee’s card at the end of the eighth, but he had lost the last two rounds clearly as Finnegan attacked steadily.

Hagler’s powerful hooking put him in control early on, but after being cut badly in the second, Finnegan became more aggressive. The Boston crowd rose to him as, blood dripping down his chest, he smashed back at Hagler with right-handers.

Hagler was shaken by rights in the sixth and seventh, but when a head-clash in the seventh opened up a gash on Finnegan’s cheek it became apparent that he would not be able to complete the 10 rounds.

Finnegan attacked throughout the seventh and eighth, winning both big but his retirement was almost inevitable as the blood continued to flow.

The fight attracted 5,300 spectators, paying $42,950. The severe weather in the Boston area probably kept the attendance down.

CUTS AGAIN STOP FINNEGAN


BOSTON- May 13: Britain’s former middleweight champion, was beaten for the second time on cuts by local middleweight contender Marvin Hagler at the Boston Garden.

Cornerman Mickey Duff retired Finnegan at the end of the sixth round with Kevin’s face a mess of blood from a variety of cuts. The finish was similar to their first meeting 10 weeks ago, when Finnegan was pulled out after eight rounds.

Finnegan gave Hagler a tremendous battle first time around, but failed to reproduce that form. Kevin has never been on the canvas as an amateur or pro, and he was never in any danger of being floored or halted here, other than on cuts. But he was fighting uphill all the way after a clash of heads reopened old scar tissue on his left cheekbone in the opening round.

Finnegan boxed coolly and countered well but the shaven-skulled Hagler kept driving him back against the ropes with a two-handed barrage.

The decisive flurry came midway through the sixth, when Hagler opened cuts above and below Kevin’s left eye.

“The important cut was the one-inch break at the corner of the scar on Kevin’ cheekbone,” Mickey Duff said. “It was certain to spread further and I didn’t want to see him go through that.”

CHEERS! ... yes Finnigan certainly was a good fighter, if only he was as committed to training as he was the bottle i am sure he would have gone a lot further in boxing

[Kid McCoy]

CHEERS! ... yes Finnigan certainly was a good fighter, if only he was as committed to training as he was the bottle i am sure he would have gone a lot further in boxing

I agree, one of those fighters who is better than his record suggests but unfortunately liked to train on Guinness. He was close to getting a shot at Monzon but he took a fight with Tonna despite having not fully recovered from a broken jaw and ended up dropping a decision against a fighter he was well capable of beating. He also should have won at least one of the Minter fights (even Minter admits that). I'd love to have seen those Hagler fights.

[sonnyboyx2]

I agree, one of those fighters who is better than his record suggests but unfortunately liked to train on Guinness. He was close to getting a shot at Monzon but he took a fight with Tonna despite having not fully recovered from a broken jaw and ended up dropping a decision against a fighter he was well capable of beating. He also should have won at least one of the Minter fights (even Minter admits that). I'd love to have seen those Hagler fights.

yes i also would have loved to have seen those Hagler fights, Finnigan was good enough to give a boxing lesson to a peak Sibson and relieve him of his titles towards the tail-end of his career, i have all 3 of the Finnigan vs Minter fights and around 4 other fights of Finnigan

[The Noose]

Now I just got done posting a response in another thread in regards to Marvin Hagler and I was on way to giving a more in depth response when I thought that it deserved a thread in itself,And that is in regard to Hagler and his legacy

Virtually every fighter is called overrated in this sport but this man,Hagler and his reseme never get questioned despite the fact that he fought in a fairly weak era of middleweights,despite the fact that he gets more credit for beating smaller fighters than any other fighter in history and he has gotten away with more whining and crying than any other fighter in the history of the sport

Hagler for years accused Hearns and Leonard of ducking him despite the fact that the two fought in division below him and unfortunately so many fans buy into this weak accusation,The very same argument could be used as to why Marvin Hagler never moved up to 175 to fight the likes of Michael Spinks and Dwight Muhammad Qawi.

Ray Leonard gets accused of ducking Hagler for five years despite the fact that apart from one dissapointing return showing he was retired due to a legitimate detached retina and regardless of whether you felt Hagler won this fight or not,I would think any unbiased,impartial viewer would have it as a very close fight.Leonard was given the nod and when time came for Hagler to simply give Leonard his credit he never did,He ran off crying like a school girl to Italy and let his **** sucking fans to make excuses for him

Infact he went out of his way to discredit the man now compare this Thomas Hearns class who hid the fact that he roke his right hand so nobody would discredit Haglers victory over him,He didn't have to do that but he did,Leonard an inactive welterweight was ale to e extremely competitive with a man who was predicted to destroy Leonard and yet this is never mentioned as it doesn't it Haglers "destruct and destroy" legacy


Men like Fulgencio Obelmejias and Mustafa Hamsho got second shots at Hagler despite beating both men decisively and yet deserving challengers like James Kinchen,James Shuler and Herol Graham never did

Marvin Hagler fans are welcome to come here and refute what I said because I unlike some do not put those who disagree with me on ignore

You shouldnt bother to go down to the level of Hagler nuthuggers. Impartial fans know he was great but limited.

He knew he was past it during and after the Leonard fight. His dream of breaking Monzons record was shattered, he couldnt bring himself to admit he lost to Leonard. But many also think he won. Not just fans, but impartial fans too. He was apparently robbed in his first loss, and again against Anterfermo so i can understand his bitterness. He then got abuse when he won his title by racist mobs.
He worked extremely hard to get a title shot, and fought brilliantly to stay champion. He showed the desire it takes to stay champion for so long.

Hagler goaded Leonard and Hearns to fight him as many boxers do. IMO he was right to fight them as they are both living legends and were huge paydays.

He was a dominant champion. Yes he could of been outboxed by quite a few fighters.
But u have to tell both sides of the story.
Its true he is one of the few fighters to never get criticised, but i can understand why his fans love him so much.

Hagler was very fortunate that Thomas Hearns broke his famous right-hand in the opening round.. IMO Marvin Hagler falls short of being in the Top 10 Greatest Middleweights, although Hagler was a good fighter he would struggle IMO to beat, Robinson, Grebb, Zale, Cerdan, BHop, Jones jr. Toney, McClellan, Fullmer, Monzon, Ketchel... Hagler twice fought Britains Kevin Finnigan over in Boston and by all accounts Finnigan handled Marvin quite easily but was robbed of victory due to Hagler opening up several cuts over Finnigans eyes due to illegal headbutts.. if Herol Graham had got his shot at Hagler which he deserved i am sure he would have given Hagler fits, Graham was very unfortunate in his fight with Mike McCallum so there is no reason to suspect he would not have done well with Hagler... IMO i dont think any version of Hagler could beat Ray Leonard who was pure class.

I think Graham would of given Hagler trouble if he didnt get hurt. Hagler was never that fast, but a very persistant, volume punching boxing with hard shots and a great jab. I think Hagler could have out worked Graham.

But we will never know how Hagler would have done against all the MW's u listed.
Hagler's fans love him for his aggression, work ethic, and reputation as a destroyer. Most are indeed totally biased in favour of him in regards to the Leonard fight, and do overate him.

Yey also they admire the way in which he struggled to get a shot at the title, and them dominated the division.

Leonard had foght at the MW limit years before, and the fight was financially the biggest draw there was. Thats why Hagler wanted Leonard, the golden boy. to fight him. Money.

Hearns proved he was no 'smaller man' by eventually moving up to LHW. He was a real threat to Hagler, and any middleweight.

[Obama]

Now I just got done posting a response in another thread in regards to Marvin Hagler and I was on way to giving a more in depth response when I thought that it deserved a thread in itself,And that is in regard to Hagler and his legacy

Virtually every fighter is called overrated in this sport but this man,Hagler and his reseme never get questioned despite the fact that he fought in a fairly weak era of middleweights,despite the fact that he gets more credit for beating smaller fighters than any other fighter in history and he has gotten away with more whining and crying than any other fighter in the history of the sport

Hagler for years accused Hearns and Leonard of ducking him despite the fact that the two fought in division below him and unfortunately so many fans buy into this weak accusation,The very same argument could be used as to why Marvin Hagler never moved up to 175 to fight the likes of Michael Spinks and Dwight Muhammad Qawi.

Ray Leonard gets accused of ducking Hagler for five years despite the fact that apart from one dissapointing return showing he was retired due to a legitimate detached retina and regardless of whether you felt Hagler won this fight or not,I would think any unbiased,impartial viewer would have it as a very close fight.Leonard was given the nod and when time came for Hagler to simply give Leonard his credit he never did,He ran off crying like a school girl to Italy and let his **** sucking fans to make excuses for him

Infact he went out of his way to discredit the man now compare this Thomas Hearns class who hid the fact that he roke his right hand so nobody would discredit Haglers victory over him,He didn't have to do that but he did,Leonard an inactive welterweight was ale to e extremely competitive with a man who was predicted to destroy Leonard and yet this is never mentioned as it doesn't it Haglers "destruct and destroy" legacy


Men like Fulgencio Obelmejias and Mustafa Hamsho got second shots at Hagler despite beating both men decisively and yet deserving challengers like James Kinchen,James Shuler and Herol Graham never did

Marvin Hagler fans are welcome to come here and refute what I said because I unlike some do not put those who disagree with me on ignore

Pretty good post actually.

[rskumm21]

Appreciate the insight, Mate.Your post demonstrates a complete understanding and knowledge on boxing and it's history as well as the topic in question which is Marvin Hagler.It really is posters like yourself who's contribution to these forums is what makes boxing the thriving sports that it is today.Thank you for keeping boxing alive with your long,well thoughout posts

I put some more thought into this one for you...