Chavez - Taylor stoppage

[Humean]

The implication is clear that you're rejecting the idea that fights are fixed (ie fraud, conspiracy) as opposed to mere "preferential treatment".

At present in at least places like USA, Britain, Germany etc then yes I do believe that. I think fixed fights there are a thing of the past, mainly but not soley because of organized crime having only a peripheral involvement in boxing in these countries today. Historically I of course know there were a lot of fraudulent fights, read my comments on the Sharkey Carnera fight as evidence of this. Nothing of what I have said here though means that there couldn't be a fixed fight in even these countries, just that there doesn't seem to be any here anymore, especially not at the top end of the sport.

[StarshipTrooper]

At present in at least places like USA, Britain, Germany etc then yes I do believe that. I think fixed fights there are a thing of the past, mainly but not soley because of organized crime having only a peripheral involvement in boxing in these countries today. Historically I of course know there were a lot of fraudulent fights, read my comments on the Sharkey Carnera fight as evidence of this. Nothing of what I have said here though means that there couldn't be a fixed fight in even these countries, just that there doesn't seem to be any here anymore, especially not at the top end of the sport.

What planet are you living on? Don King IS (or at least WAS up until recently) organized crime.

Poet

[Humean]

What planet are you living on? Don King IS (or at least WAS up until recently) organized crime.

He ran a numbers racket back in the day. He may have engaged in criminal practices as a promoter and manager but he is not part of an organized crime in the relevant sense. The significance of organized crime on boxing is their ability, usually through bribes to one of the fighters, to throw the fight for as I can see one of two purposes
1) to bring ******** returns for the criminals/gangsters
2) to help bolster the record/career of the non bribed fighter in order to gain from his increased purses in the future (which they steal), Primo Carnera and especially Don Jordan are the best attested examples of this.

This doesn't seem to occur in USA anymore, organized crime figures are not unofficially 'managing' fighters, at least not at the top end, and why do so at the bottom end where there is no money?

The corruption and illegal behaviour of Don King doesn't seem to reach to fixed fights.

[bklynboy]

them key words right thur, in the moment. we speculatin n tryna explain, rathionalize, etc. here's an alternative u don't want, steel ax him twice n takes about 3 seconds off the clock before he waves it off. if he did taylor like nady did vargas v tito, like just wipes off meldrick gloves and waves Julio in, Julio can land another 5 shots with his full weight in them n if taylor lives then he probly ends up talkin like he does way bfor he gets a shot at aaron davis belt. or taylor slips into a coma and everyone pissed at steele for not thinkin of the fighters safety. the ref is closest in there,when he makes a questionable ruling, we trust he had ample reason to. of course when steele lets ray leonard excessively clinch and bolo right into haglers cup right in front of his face and take no points away, we have to admit he aint that good a ref. matter of fact, I don't even think steel even said nothing to ray when he bolo'd haglers cup n it was right in front of steels country talkin face. shake han an g'luck. fk Richard steele. but I don't have a problem with the taylor stoppage

excellent point. It really isn't a question of stopping with 2 seconds left but letting the fight go on with 5 or 6 seconds left. More than enough time for a desperate JCC to seriously hurt Taylor.

[StarshipTrooper]

He ran a numbers racket back in the day. He may have engaged in criminal practices as a promoter and manager but he is not part of an organized crime in the relevant sense. The significance of organized crime on boxing is their ability, usually through bribes to one of the fighters, to throw the fight for as I can see one of two purposes
1) to bring ******** returns for the criminals/gangsters
2) to help bolster the record/career of the non bribed fighter in order to gain from his increased purses in the future (which they steal), Primo Carnera and especially Don Jordan are the best attested examples of this.

This doesn't seem to occur in USA anymore, organized crime figures are not unofficially 'managing' fighters, at least not at the top end, and why do so at the bottom end where there is no money?

The corruption and illegal behaviour of Don King doesn't seem to reach to fixed fights.

Apparently you missed the "United States Boxing Tournament" on ABC Sports back in 1977: Completely a Don King promotion, it featured blatantly fixed fights and wound up being pulled by ABC.

Poet

[Humean]

That was the 70s. I am talking about recent times. I thought that was obvious in regards to my comments about the state of boxing today, I do not deny historical cases of fraudulent fights.

[StarshipTrooper]

That was the 70s. I am talking about recent times. I thought that was obvious in regards to my comments about the state of boxing today, I do not deny historical cases of fraudulent fights.

Chavez - Taylor I (1990) was a hell of a lot closer in time to 1977 than it is to today. That fight doesn't qualify as "recent times" by any stretch of the ****ing imagination.

Poet

[Humean]

Chavez - Taylor I (1990) was a hell of a lot closer in time to 1977 than it is to today. That fight doesn't qualify as "recent times" by any stretch of the ****ing imagination.

I regard Chavez - Taylor (1990) closer to the current climate that i'm talking about than to the mid/end of 70s ring magazine scandal, the full details of which I do not think we have knowledge of in regards to actual 'fixes'. The ratings part seems to be well attested to but not the 'fix' part. The relevant cases of organized crime involvement that produced fixed fights seemed to be over by the 60s. Then a numbers racketeer with undoubted connections to organized crime - probably still the case up to today - enters the scene in the mid 70s. His old shady ways are perfectly suited to the shadiness that boxing has seemed to be able to thrive in and he produced a more than corrupt tournament in the late 70s. Were there fixed fights though? Maybe, but if so they do not fit the pattern that seems to have arisen since organized crime lost a grip on the sport. 1990 is most defintiely recent times in regards to the history of this particular subject.

[Scott9945]

Apparently you missed the "United States Boxing Tournament" on ABC Sports back in 1977: Completely a Don King promotion, it featured blatantly fixed fights and wound up being pulled by ABC.

Poet

The saintly Ring Magazine had their hands all over that too. King has been involved in many, many shady boxing occurrences since then.

[StarshipTrooper]

I regard Chavez - Taylor (1990) closer to the current climate that i'm talking about than to the mid/end of 70s ring magazine scandal, the full details of which I do not think we have knowledge of in regards to actual 'fixes'. The ratings part seems to be well attested to but not the 'fix' part. The relevant cases of organized crime involvement that produced fixed fights seemed to be over by the 60s. Then a numbers racketeer with undoubted connections to organized crime - probably still the case up to today - enters the scene in the mid 70s. His old shady ways are perfectly suited to the shadiness that boxing has seemed to be able to thrive in and he produced a more than corrupt tournament in the late 70s. Were there fixed fights though? Maybe, but if so they do not fit the pattern that seems to have arisen since organized crime lost a grip on the sport. 1990 is most defintiely recent times in regards to the history of this particular subject.

Oh yeah, 1990 is "recent" but 1977 is "Jurassic". Please continue talking out of your anus.....I need the laughs.

Poet