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Best p4p fighter of the 19th century

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  • #11

    Bob Fitzsimmons was a tall, lanky and explosive middleweight puncher. He was boxing’s first triple-crown champion gaining the world’s middleweight (1891-1897), light-heavyweight (1903-1905) and heavyweight (1897-1899) crowns during a career that spanned a long 34 years. His record was 55-8-16 7 ND with 48 knockouts, although he claimed to have as many as 300 fights all unrecorded.

    Despite being no more than a middleweight he carried a heavyweight’s upper body build and a heavyweight’s strong punch. He was experienced and clever. As an excellent feinter he knew how to draw his opponent’s into his deadly blows. He was steadfast, patient and had excellent accuracy in striking vital points.

    Early ring historian Sandy Griswold said in the Dec 24, 1904 National Police Gazette, “He knows all the vulnerable spots of the human anatomy as well as the most erudite surgeon in the business and has a greater variety of effective blows than any fighter who ever lived.”

    There is no question that Fitzsimmons had a heavyweights punching power. In 1893, he knocked out seven men in one night and accomplished the feat in under nineteen rounds. All men weighed over 200 pounds. One stood 6-7 and weighed in at 240 pounds. The fact that a middleweight could knock out a man the size of Lennox Lewis demonstrates his worth as a hitter. Fitzsimmons actually defeated top heavyweight contenders Peter Maher, Gus Ruhlin and Tom Sharkey all by knockout.

    Nat Fleischer, founder of The Ring Magazine, regarded Fitzsimmons as the greatest pound for pound knockout puncher in boxing history. He also considered Fitz as the best-left hooker, and the best body puncher among heavyweights.

    David Willoughby,in The Super Athletes, 1970, concurred saying that “Fitzsimmons had perhaps the hardest punch ever possessed by a boxer of his size.”

    Joe Gans, lightweight champion 1902-1908, stated, Feb. 2, 1908 NY Times, “I consider Bob Fitzsimmons as one of the greatest exponents of straight hitting that the prize ring has ever known. Fitz was a wonderful fighter and all of his straight punches were very effective. Until age set in and his hands went back on him, there were few fighters able to withstand that famous shift of his. When Fitz delivered a blow he carried the whole weight of his body with it.”

    McCallum wrote, (Encyclopedia p 8), “He moved with a shuffling gate. He stood flatfooted. His timing was perfect. He had a superb sense of distance. His punching therefore was deadly accurate.”

    One was never safe until the final bell with Fitzsimmons. Durant noted, in , “He was ring-wise and crafty. He would sometimes lure an opponent into being careless by pretending to be hurt and then shoot over a knockout punch.”

    Fleischer stated (Enigma Chpt. 13), “Fitzsimmons, who took the crown from Corbett, was not a slugger of the Sullivan type, nor did he approach Corbett in boxing skill. Yet he was the greatest strategist in the ring's history, a man of wonderful vitality, and the most accurate and deadliest hitter of the class. To reach Jim Corbett in the pit of the stomach with knockout force was a feat for a magician, and Fitz was a magician. Where others signally failed, Fitz succeeded through strategic feinting to induce Corbett to raise his guard and open the way for a left shift and a crashing blow to the solar plexus.”

    I do not believe as many of the old-timers did that Fitzsimmons should be rated among the top heavyweights. He hit like a heavyweight but was still only a middleweight, in my view, this means he should be ranked with the 160-pounders. Charley Rose, in fact, did not rate him as a heavyweight. Rose rated him as a light-heavyweight, however he was light-heavyweight champion at the end of his career and was quite old.

    It is my contention that Fitzsimmons should be rated among the all time greats as a middleweight and he, in fact, was a middleweight for most of his career. The idea that Fitzsimmons was anything more than a middleweight is a myth. Fitzsimmons began boxing professionally in 1883 and when he won the middleweight championship of the world in 1891 by knocking out the “Nonpareil” Jack Dempsey he weighed 150 ˝ pounds. For his 1894 championship defense against Dan Creedon, for example, he weighed 155 ˝ according to the Oct. 13, 1894 National Police Gazette. When he fought for the heavyweight title he was stripped down and privately weighed on the morning of Mar 17, 1897, the day of his fight with champion James J. Corbett, and “tipped the scale at 156 ˝ pounds” according to Bob Davis a reporter and friend who was following Fitzsimmons (See Book of Boxing p 71). Further the San Francisco Chronicle reported the day before the second Jim Jeffries fight that “Fitzsimmons claims to weigh only 160 pounds and hardly looked that heavy.”

    Gene Tunney wrote, (1940), that Fitz always considered himself a middleweight, “Fitz, incidentally, was funny about his weight, for, after defeating Corbett, while alone in a Turkish bath with Jim Coffroth, he kept repeating, 'eavyweight champion of the world--and I’m only a bleeding middleweight.”

    While I have no doubt his vigor and durability would allow him to survive any middleweight’s punch, against the bigger and more modern heavyweights one has to question Nat Fleischer’s 1958 # 3 ranking at heavyweight for Fitzsimmons.

    Consider that James Corbett, a small heavyweight who was not known for his power, bloodied Fitz’s lip with a sturdy left jab and floored the middleweight champion in the 6th round. If Corbett’s jab could tear up Fitz what would Joe Louis jab and right hand do? Or Muhammad Ali?

    Fitz was down against Joe Choyinski, a light-heavyweight, in their draw fight. The June 30, 1894 Police Gazette reported, “Fitzsimmons finally tried for the wind and received a straight jab in the face. He came in again and was caught over the left eye so hard his that his head flew back. Keeping after Choyinski he let go for the wind. Choyinski shot his right across him full on the neck. Down he went like a falling chimney…the referee began to count but before he cried out “ten” Fitzsimmons was up. Fitzsimmons was up smiling like a sick man trying to make someone believe he feels better than he really does. He staggered about the ring and Choyinski went after him hard and furious. He could not however, get his right in for a knockout.”

    Choynski was a great light-heavyweight hitter, but he was still only a light-heavyweight. Fitz was badly staggered, careening around the ring, and barely beat a ten count. He came back to put Choynski down as well, but what if it had been a great heavyweight finisher like Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey, or Mike Tyson instead of Joe Choysnki?

    In describing Jim Jeffries title winning effort against Fitzsimmons the National Police Gazette wrote on July 1, 1899 “Jeffries was as firm and steady as the proverbial rock, fighting a carefully planned battle. He had demonstrated his ability to hit the champion and likewise demonstrated he had nothing to fear from the latter’s punches.”

    Jeffries, a modern sized heavyweight, had little trouble in breaking down the smaller Fitzsimmons and knocking him out in their first fight. In the rematch, it has been contended that Fitzsimmons had loaded gloves (although this has never been proven) and he gave Big Jeff quite a beating, but a single blow from the heavyweight champion eventually knocked him out.

    Bob Fitzsimmons has been described as a physical oddity, a middleweight puncher who destroyed heavyweights. He definitely had a heavyweight’s offensive prowess and could dish out punishment with the best of them, but his small frame, and fact that he was hurt by small heavyweights and light-heavyweights and was easily knocked out by a big heavyweight, means that he would be a vast underdog against any of the all time big men.

    As a middleweight Fitzsimmons was nearly unbeatable. He was without challenge the hardest punching middleweight of all time. He was a highly accurate place puncher and a master at setting up knockout blows. Perhaps historian and writer Edgar Lee Masters said it best, "For courage, for power, for skill, for fighting will, there is nothing on record that holds a candle to Fitz." At 160 pounds Fitz’s incredible gift of amazing power combined with his cleverness, ring experience and proven success against much larger opponents demonstrates that he should be rated among the elite of the greatest middleweight of all time.

    Nat Fleischer as mentioned rated Fitzsimmons # 3 at heavyweight. Charley Rose rated him # 1 at light-heavyweight. Historian Tracy Callis also rates him # 1 at middleweight. Fitz was a true middlweight for most of his career. Cox's Corner rates him # 2 all time in the middleweight division.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by .SOUTHPAW16BF. View Post

      Thank you! Excellent article! It reafirms in my mind my placing Ruby Robert at Middleweight and the number 2 Middleweight all-time at that

      PS. Green K given for are an excellent article and a great find

      Poet

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      • #13
        Originally posted by poet682006 View Post
        Thank you! Excellent article! It reafirms in my mind my placing Ruby Robert at Middleweight and the number 2 Middleweight all-time at that

        PS. Green K given for are an excellent article and a great find

        Poet
        No problem..............

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        • #14
          Originally posted by JAB5239 View Post
          Under the Marquios of Queensbury rules which were instated in 1867, who was the best p4p fighter of the 19th century? Was it Joe Gans? Bob Fitzsimmons? John L. Sullivan? George Dixon? Young Griffo? Who do you have, and Why?
          Im going with Dixon. Was said to have fought up to 15 times a week at one point, was a bantam and featherweight champion and fought in at least 23 and up to as many as 33 championship fights. Was the role model for such fighters as Joe Gans, Jack Johnson, Jack Blackburn and Joe Louis among others. Was the first black title holder ever.

          This is very subjectice considering the very limited amount of film before the 20th century. Bob Fitzsimmons is a close second in my opinion, but I wouldn't argue a call for him.

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          • #15

            George Dixon was one of the greatest fighters of all time. He was the first black fighter to win a world boxing championship. He held the bantamweight (1890) and featherweight championships (1891-1897, 1898-1900) winning his first championship at age 20. He fought in 23 world championship bouts (some records indicate 33), the most of any fighter until Joe Louis. Dixon held the Featherweight championship while never weighing beyond 118 pounds. He often fought and defeated men who were natural lightweights. His official record shows 158 bouts, but his record fails to record the actual number of fights he had as many were staged in dance halls and theatres around the country. Dixon’s manager who traveled with him claimed, before his death, that Dixon had over 800 fights sometimes fighting up to 15 times a week (See BD. Vol. 3 p. 7) One issue of the National Police Gazette indicates he had over 1,000. This is a record unparalleled in the history of sports.

            Dixon is considered by many to be the greatest fighter of the 19th century. The newspapers of his day hailed him as "The greatest of them all." In the Jun 27, 1900 Police Gazette there is a photograph stating, “Characteristic fighting pose of the Greatest Pugilist the World ever saw.” Sam Austin, editor of the Gazette once called him “a fighter without a flaw.”

            “Little Chocolate” was a superb boxer, who founded the “black school” of pugilism of which Joe Walcott, Jack Johnson, and Joe Gans belonged. Dixon and Walcott shared the same manager in Tom O’Rourke. Gans was a good friend of Dixon and studied under him, while Johnson served as a sparring partner for Walcott in his youth.

            Dixon was a fast puncher with an excellent left jab, his best punch being a strong right cross to the chin. He also had a strong left hook. His favorite combination was a left jab to the face, followed by a right to the body and a jab back to the face. His famous fighting method included jabbing, feinting and rushing an opponent to the ropes where he would work the body. He was also known for his defensive ability to dodge, evade, and block his opponent’s blows.

            Nat Fleischer, founder of Ring magazine, described him as “a marvel of cleverness, yet he could hit and slug with the best of them. He was fast, tricky, combative, canny, courageous, a master in every respect of the art of self-defense, a great ring general. His left hand was one of the best in the business. His double left to the body has never been equaled. His right was equally good” (B.D. p 6).

            Tom O'Rourke described Dixon thusly, "Of all the fighters I have seen none can compare to Dixon in all around fighting ability. What a wonderful left hand! What a double corking punch to the head and body! What a fighting heart and fighting head! What a superb, all around mastery of the manly art he possessed!" (Oct. 1936 Ring Magazine.)

            That fighters of this period were already fighting in combination is evident by reading newspaper accounts of Dixon’s battles with the clever Young Griffo. Their June 29, 1894 draw was heralded as “The best battle ever seen at Boston” and featured “very fast in-fighting.” The Police Gazette reported that another of their draws “was a continuous succession of clever feints, rapid exchanges, leads and uppercuts.” “Fast fighting” and “continuous rapid exchanges” sounds remarkably like “sustained combination punching.”

            Herbert Goldman noted that, Dixon was an fine boxer who “fought on the balls of his feet.” He had excellent footwork and his agility and fleetness of foot was able to help him in avoiding blows. He could also “spring” into an opponent and had perfect balance.

            McCallum wrote that Dixon was “long armed and skinny legged, swift of hand and foot, Little Chocolate boxed like a phantom, slugged like a diminutive longshoreman. He possessed the ideal fighting temperament. Distance meant nothing. He could pick up speed and last all the way” (pp 264-265).

            Historian Tracy Callis stated, “Dixon was one of the all-time ring greats; He had fast hands and was quick on his feet like a cat; On offense, he hit with both hands but mostly utilized a long, straight left accompanied by a stiff right; On defense, he guarded himself well; His quickness and ducking ability made him a difficult target to strike.”

            Callis also wrote, “Dixon won nearly 90 percent of the draws and losses on his record but due to various reasons he did not get credit for a win; e.g. racial attitude of the times judged him as loser instead of winner (in some bouts), he had to carry opponents in order to get fights, as well as specific rules for a given fight - i.e. the verdict would be draw if no knockout was scored.”

            This fact is supported even by the white press of the period. The Sept. 30, 1893 Police Gazette reported “Nearly every time Dixon has been pitted against a champion, no matter whether foreign or native, the majority has named Dixon the loser, probably through prejudice, owing to his color, yet he has won.”

            The newspaper record proves that Dixon was robbed of a good number of wins. For example in a bout with a young Abe Attell reported in the Sep. 14, 1901 Police Gazette, the bout was ruled a draw by the Referee. Reading the account however, it is clear that Dixon deserved the decision. Dixon floored Attell in the first round with a right to the chin. In the third round, “They got in a fierce mix, raining in face and body blows one after the other. Dixon seemed to have the better of the going.” Dixon staggered Abe in the eighth. Dixon also finished strongly but the Ref refused to declare Dixon the winner.

            In a Featherweight championship match against Cal McCarthy on Mar. 31, 1891 Dixon had to knock out his opponent twice! In the third round little George knocked McCarthy out cold. But the referee, as in a London Prize Ring Rules, allowed McCarthy’s managers to drag him to his corner and revive him. This is strictly against the rules of the Marquis of Queensbury that governed this bout. Dixon’s manager protested but to no avail. Dixon eventually won by knockout in the 22nd round “with a flurry of offensive fighting.” McCarthy couldn’t continue and Dixon won by knockout.

            Dixon, because of the color of his skin, often had to fight under unfair and even dangerous circumstances. There were no boxing commissions in those days and the gamblers controlled the sport.

            Dixon fought and defeated a lot of great warriors in the ring. He went 70 rounds in his first fight with Cal McCarthy and never hit the canvas once, in fact, in nearly a decade as champion, he never hit the canvas in a regulation match until he lost the title to Terry McGovern. He defeated or drew with such ring legends as Nunc Wallace, Johnny Murphy, Young Griffo, Solly Smith, Pedlar Palmer, Dal Hawkins, future lightweight champion Franke Erne, Abe Attell, and Jem Driscoll.

            Perhaps Fleischer described him best saying, “I doubt ever in the history of pugilism has there ever been a fighter of his weight who engaged in so many thrilling battles, most of them finish fights, and yet he was able to remain at the height of his power for so long” (B.D. p 78).

            Dixon reigned as a champion for nearly 10 years. He finally lost the title for good to Terry McGovern who stopped him in the eighth round. It was the first time he had been off his feet in a regulation contest. Dixon fought McGovern in a no decision non-title rematch and never again contended for the title. He died penniless in 1909 at the age of 38.

            George Dixon was rated as the # 1 all time Bantamweight by both Nat Fleischer and Charley Rose. Cox’s Corner considers him to be the # 2 Bantamweight of all time.

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            • #16
              Fitzsimmons all day long...

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              • #17
                Non-pareil Jack Dempsey probably deserves some attention. According to CBZ some regards him as the top p4p'er......

                Anyways his record is outstanding. Here's the cbz link: http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/non-jack.htm

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by poet682006 View Post
                  Thank you! Excellent article! It reafirms in my mind my placing Ruby Robert at Middleweight and the number 2 Middleweight all-time at that

                  PS. Green K given for are an excellent article and a great find

                  Poet
                  These articles are not hard to find. You just type Cox's Corner - Fighter's name in google and presto, you got one of these articles (should it be written that is).

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by Obama View Post
                    These articles are not hard to find. You just type Cox's Corner - Fighter's name in google and presto, you got one of these articles (should it be written that is).
                    It's an excellent find because he took the time to look for it, read it, then post it. Most posters don't put the kind of effort into their posts that SOUTHPAW16BF puts in with his articles and TheGreatA puts in with his videos.

                    Poet

                    Comment


                    • #20
                      Originally posted by poet682006 View Post
                      It's an excellent find because he took the time to look for it, read it, then post it. Most posters don't put the kind of effort into their posts that SOUTHPAW16BF puts in with his articles and TheGreatA puts in with his videos.

                      Poet
                      All of Cox's Corner's stuff is good like this. Cox is a quality guy.

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