Number of fights vs. quality of fights.

[TheGreatA]

for a minute there I thought Dunce was referring to sugar ray robinson but then I saw a number of black fighters in that particular reseme list and realised it was obviously someone else.My mistake

Henry Armstrong
Kid Gavilan
Randy Turpin
George Costner
Jose Basora
Jackie Wilson
Ray Barnes
Tommy Bell
Holley Mims
Aaron Wade

weren't black?

[1SILVA]

I was wondering.. How much does the number of fights a fighter got on his resume really mean..? If we take a guy like Julio Ceasar Chavez, the man had countless of fights but the majority of those were against part time fighters (not hating on the man). On the other hand we got fighters today who only fight around 40 fights but a lot of those are against quality opponents.. Fighters today fight a lot less then they did 50 years ago is this bad for boxing that they don't face almost anybody in the divison?

What's your take on this

Discuss.

Excellent point. Joe Frazier is a perfect example. Not a lot of fights, but he fought the best Heavyweights of his era except Ken Norton. His resume is outstanding!!!!!!!!

[Obama]

Excellent point. Joe Frazier is a perfect example. Not a lot of fights, but he fought the best Heavyweights of his era except Ken Norton. His resume is outstanding!!!!!!!!

Um...no.

He also didn't fight:

Larry Holmes
Earnie Shavers
Jimmy Young
Floyd Patterson
Ron Lyle
Ernie Terrell

I could go on and on...

[1SILVA]

Um...no.

He also didn't fight:

Larry Holmes
Earnie Shavers
Jimmy Young
Floyd Patterson
Ron Lyle
Ernie Terrell

I could go on and on...

By the time he became heavyweight champ, Terrell was done. Had Floyd not been robbed in the heavyweight tournament, Frazier would have fought him and destroyed him. He would have destroyed Lyle as well and Shavers. Young would have given him problems.

[Obama]

By the time he became heavyweight champ, Terrell was done. Had Floyd not been robbed in the heavyweight tournament, Frazier would have fought him and destroyed him. He would have destroyed Lyle as well and Shavers. Young would have given him problems.

Oooo I see. We're going with the RJJ philosophy. Doesn't matter that he didn't fight them, cuz he would have beat them anyways. Got it.

[TheGreatA]

Oooo I see. We're going with the RJJ philosophy. Doesn't matter that he didn't fight them, cuz he would have beat them anyways. Got it.

Frazier didn't really get a chance to fight them. Patterson lost to Ellis (a robbery) and retired for a brief period, Terrell went downhill after losing to Ali and Spencer, Lyle and Shavers were close to getting their shot if not for losing to Quarry decisively, Holmes and Young weren't contenders until Frazier himself had already retired in the late 70's.

[Obama]

Frazier didn't really get a chance to fight them. Patterson lost to Ellis (a robbery) and retired for a brief period, Terrell went downhill after losing to Ali and Spencer, Lyle and Shavers were close to getting their shot if not for losing to Quarry decisively, Holmes and Young weren't contenders until Frazier himself had already retired in the late 70's.

Um, yet Ali fought all these guys. Frazier was on the decline...so? Ali was over the hill when he beat half of his best opposition.

[TheGreatA]

Um, yet Ali fought all these guys. Frazier was on the decline...so? Ali was over the hill when he beat half of his best opposition.

It would have been good not to see Ali fight Jimmy Young, Earnie Shavers and Larry Holmes. Those fights didn't really do his legacy any good. He should have retired after the Thrilla in Manila in my opinion.

Frazier himself might as well have retired after beating Ali, because that was what he said he would do, retire at the top. For a fighter of his style he needed all the fire, hunger and determination he had before fighting Ali.

Holmes made his name in 1978 when he beat Norton and Shavers. By then Frazier had been retired for two years.

Young was an unknown until fighting Ali and Foreman in 1976 and 1977.

Lyle and Shavers were both possible title challengers for Frazier in 1973 but they failed in their step-up against former Frazier opponent Jerry Quarry.

Terrell fought in a different era than Frazier, the early and mid 1960's. By 1967 (when Frazier made his mark) he had lost three in a row.

Patterson as I said would have fought Frazier had he won the Ellis fight which he deserved. He wasn't given the decision and retired in disgust until coming back a few years later.

From 1967 to 1971 Frazier fought pretty much everyone that mattered. I'm not saying his resume is on Ali's level but for someone with just 37 fights it's extremely good. By his 20th fight he had already fought contenders Oscar Bonavena, George Chuvalo, Buster Mathis, Eddie Machen, Manuel Ramos and Doug Jones.

All in all he fought

Muhammad Ali (x3)
George Foreman (x2)
Jimmy Ellis (x2)
Jerry Quarry (x2)
Oscar Bonavena (x2)
Joe Bugner
George Chuvalo
Bob Foster
Buster Mathis
Eddie Machen
Manuel Ramos
Doug Jones

[Obama]

I'm not down with the whole eliminator philosophy. Just cuz a guy loses to someone else, doesn't mean you don't fight him later. There are more names I could have listed that he didn't fight, I simply didn't see a point. He fought in the "golden age" of Heavyweights and only managed to fight 11 credible Heavyweights. There were around 30.

[princemanspoper]

Henry Armstrong
Kid Gavilan
Randy Turpin
George Costner
Jose Basora
Jackie Wilson
Ray Barnes
Tommy Bell
Holley Mims
Aaron Wade

weren't black?

Holman Williams
Cocoa Kid
Jack Chase
Charley Burley
Archie Moore
Lloyd Marshall
Eddie Booker
Rory Calhoun
Spider Webb

Weren't black?