Muhammed Ali And Joe Louis: Who's The Greatest Heavyweight?

[mickey malone]

A statement from a gypsy, can't see any reason to doubt that

You've obviously had your lawnmower stolen to lol

Well if that's where it came from, I'll disregard it.. Last time I heard, both the Frankhams were in the nick..

[Sugarj]

Ali was always getting knocked down in sparring, 99% of the time he was clowning, some may have looked real, some may have been real.

One time that was real was when Jimmy Ellis cracked a nasty body punch to Ali's lower ribs as he was preparing for the 1965 Liston return. It still was painful when Ali entered the ring for the fight itself, or so he says. Word obviously didn't reach Liston!

[mickey malone]

It was an exhibition, but the knockdown itself was a fake. Ali often used to lark about in exhibitions and pretend to get KO'd. There is actually a photo of Ali on the canvas with Frankham standing over him in existence.

Ah... There was a hint of truth in it then..

[boxingbuff]

Not sure what you mean? As in won 11 lost 2 losing only to Norton & Frazier 1 a piece? Or between 70 & 77 (when these fights took place) Ali fought 26 times losing twice? How do you want me to break things down?

How would Joe Louis do AFTER his 4 year lay-off against Frazier,Forman,Norton,Bugner,Bonavena,and Lyle?

Remember this is AFTER Joe Louis's 4 year lay-off.

BTW-Frazier had an easier time with his opponents than Ali did.Forman had an easier time with his opponents than Ali did.Liston had an easier time with his opponents than Ali did.

BUT,Ali whipped all of them.Ali stopped all of them!

So Louis having fewer opponents that gave him trouble than Ali did,holds no water.

[mickey malone]

How would Joe Louis do AFTER his 4 year lay-off against Frazier,Forman,Norton,Bugner,Bonavena,and Lyle?

Remember this is AFTER Joe Louis's 4 year lay-off.

BTW-Frazier had an easier time with his opponents than Ali did.Forman had an easier time with his opponents than Ali did.Liston had an easier time with his opponents than Ali did.

BUT,Ali whipped all of them.Ali stopped all of them!

So Louis having fewer opponents that gave him trouble than Ali did,holds no water.

Oh... I see, from Conn onwards, ie Mauriello, Charles, Walcott (2), Charles, & eventually Marciano.. Yeah, I can't deny Ali's results & opponents are of better quality.. But, by then, Louis had defeated & KO'd a lot more fighters than Ali.. He'd also defended his title more times, & with the exception of Liston, against relatively similar opposition.. There's arguments for these breakdowns for every year.. Poet has done it all on the computer, & Louis comes out on top by a hairs breath.. Not saying the computer has to be right, but I was with Louis b4 computers were invented, once again, by a hairs breath..

[TheGreatA]

How would Joe Louis do AFTER his 4 year lay-off against Frazier,Forman,Norton,Bugner,Bonavena,and Lyle?

Remember this is AFTER Joe Louis's 4 year lay-off.

BTW-Frazier had an easier time with his opponents than Ali did.Forman had an easier time with his opponents than Ali did.Liston had an easier time with his opponents than Ali did.

BUT,Ali whipped all of them.Ali stopped all of them!

So Louis having fewer opponents that gave him trouble than Ali did,holds no water.

Then again Louis was 32 years old after his layoff while Ali was 28.

[boxingbuff]

Oh... I see, from Conn onwards, ie Mauriello, Charles, Walcott (2), Charles, & eventually Marciano.. Yeah, I can't deny Ali's results & opponents are of better quality.. But, by then, Louis had defeated & KO'd a lot more fighters than Ali.. He'd also defended his title more times, & with the exception of Liston, against relatively similar opposition.. There's arguments for these breakdowns for every year.. Poet has done it all on the computer, & Louis comes out on top by a hairs breath.. Not saying the computer has to be right, but I was with Louis b4 computers were invented, once again, by a hairs breath..

Why do you even mention Louis KO'd alot more fighters than Ali did?

Liston,Frazier,and Forman KO'd alot more fighters than Ali did also....But Ali beat all three and stopped all three.

BTW-To answer my own question....Post war Louis would have been KO'd by Forman and Frazier.He would have had trouble against Shavers and Norton.

So your argument that Ali AFTER his 3 1/2 year lay-off having trouble with Frazier,Norton and Shavers hold no water.Because Louis would have had trouble against Forman,Frazier,Norton and Shavers too.But ALOT worse trouble than Ali did against them.

Prime vs prime Ali beats Louis by UD-10-5

[Spartacus Sully]

Louis i find had a way of keeping them at the perfect range by pushing away and back pedalin before the ref gets there in clinches. has a similar aspect to that of foreman to whom he would have had trouble with. maybe even a loss.

norton and fraiser 8+ round ko's

not to familiar with shavers or young.

louis would ko spinks 3-5th round

[Spartacus Sully]

not to mention louis on had 15 fights after his lay off and ali had 32 and that louis had gone through 96 3 4 round expos after his 53 prime fights. compared to alis 29? can that really be prime?id say alis was in his prime for norton fraiser shavers ect where as louis was in his prime pre lay off

well maybe to be mentioned

[Sugarj]

I consider a fighter's prime to be where they showed best form. In Ali's case this was 66/67. Ali was clearly post prime when he fought Frazier, Norton and definitely Shavers.