Muhammed Ali And Joe Louis: Who's The Greatest Heavyweight?

[Sugarj]

Hi Ylem, Foreman hit Ali with his hardest punches (one of which Ali admitted sent off bells in his head!), Shavers hit him with his hardest punch in round two, a real monster right hand, Liston hit him hard too and guess what? Not one of them even had him so much as down.

I rate Louis as a hard puncher, but not as hard as these guys! So how is Louis going to KO Ali with 'one good one'. I dont know!!!!!

[Spartacus Sully]

Hello

I just rate joe as a harder puncher.

[Spartacus Sully]

Diffrent kind of punchers as well like hypothetically forman could hit a bag and have it hit the ceilling louis could hit a bag and blow the sand out the back

[mickey malone]

Hi Ylem, Foreman hit Ali with his hardest punches (one of which Ali admitted sent off bells in his head!), Shavers hit him with his hardest punch in round two, a real monster right hand, Liston hit him hard too and guess what? Not one of them even had him so much as down.

I rate Louis as a hard puncher, but not as hard as these guys! So how is Louis going to KO Ali with 'one good one'. I dont know!!!!!

It'd have to be a combination, & it would have to be late in the fight.. Ali maybe getting stopped on his feet.. Other scenarios favor Ali.. In all honesty, it's a 50/50 fight, & I only favor Louis on resume, plus he'd hit more often than Foreman, more precisely, & harder than Frazier.. Ali would really have his work cut out in this one..

[mickey malone]

Diffrent kind of punchers as well like hypothetically forman could hit a bag and have it hit the ceilling louis could hit a bag and blow the sand out the back

Fantastic description!

[Elemental Fist]

I would consider Ali to be the greatest, he was light on his feet, a good chin and good punching power. In his prime he could talk the talk and walk the walk.

As for head to head however, strategy is an important aspect in any fight and this would be no different, if Ali could keep his game plan working, he could win but Joe Louis should not be underestimated either especially his KO power, not saying he would definitely KO Ali but Louis' punches are among the greatest in the history of the sport.

[Sugarj]

Hee hee, interesting analogies on the heavybag front Ylem but I dont think they would have too much grounding on a scientific front. By your own admission you 'rate Joe as a harder puncher' than Foreman, Liston and Shavers and of course our opinions are our own but I think most historians and experts would disagree with you. Granted Joe was faster and more accurate though.

A better chalk and cheese example would be Tyson vs Shavers on a heavy bag. Tyson might burst/rip the bag with his speed/power combination whereas Shavers might rip it down from the ceiling (with power rather than speed). Both punch hard and both would knock you out. But my analogy is more comedic than serious.

That said 'one big one' is too tough an ask of Louis over a guy who quite simply was never knocked out. The only three knockdowns from head punches Ali ever suffered were all left hooks and none kept him down for more than a count of three. Added to this they all occurred three or four years on either side of his peak.

Joe Louis punched hard (and fast. Not Tyson/Patterson fast though) but I'm finding it hard trying to remember a solitary one punch left hook KO out of Louis against anyone with as proven a chin as Ali. Louis was more of a combination puncher than a one punch KO artist and thats how most of his fights ended.

I'd find it easier to agree with Mickey that were Ali to be KO'd or TKO'd it would have to be from a combination, now Louis was good at these. The combinations that finished Conn, Walcott the second time, Baer and Schmelling were art, no two ways about it! But Ali didn't get caught with combos in his peak from even his fastest opponents and Ali is always going to be dancing four or five feet away from Louis who lets face it was no chin down pressure fighter in the mould of Dempsey, Marciano, Foreman or Tyson.

Plus, I hate to bring up the size thing again, but Ali was a size bigger and heavier than Joe and had a telescopic reach of 82 inches, three more reasons for Joe to struggle.

[mickey malone]

One has to study the fights in which Ali was knocked down.. Jones, Cooper & Frazier.. The fact there was only 3, tells us how darn good he was..
However, all of these KD's happened as Ali dropped his guard & got on his bike..
This was a fault in his defense strategy, & had it not been for the bell, would have lost to Cooper, let alone Louis... I just don't think he'd have gotten away with it...
I'd say Shavers & Foreman hit with more torque (foot/lbs), but Louis with far more velocity (feet per second sqd), but this was with both hands...

[Sugarj]

Absolutely Mickey! I wouldn't throw the 1962/63 Clay in with a peak Joe Louis and would think twice about the 1971 Ali that lost to Frazier too. That said, Doug Jones never knocked Ali down, it was a guy called Sonny Banks. Ali got straight up and stopped him two rounds later.

The late 66/67 Ali was a sharper tool though.

I like the torque vs velocity angle, I'm into my cars. Foreman would be a Bentley Continental GT 6 litre W12 twin Turbo to Louis's Lithe Ferrari 430 Scuderia.

[mickey malone]

Absolutely Mickey! I wouldn't throw the 1962/63 Clay in with a peak Joe Louis and would think twice about the 1971 Ali that lost to Frazier too. That said, Doug Jones never knocked Ali down, it was a guy called Sonny Banks. Ali got straight up and stopped him two rounds later.

The late 66/67 Ali was a sharper tool though.

I like the torque vs velocity angle, I'm into my cars. Foreman would be a Bentley Continental GT 6 litre W12 twin Turbo to Louis's Lithe Ferrari 430 Scuderia.

****... Why do I always quote Jones as Banks?.. I've done that before lol... Thanks for the correction.. I'll learn one day...
Yeah.... I did an Engineering apprenticeship when I left school, & I still use the various terminologies from time to time.. Glad you appreciate it..
These days, mines a Yamaha 125.... lol