Do you think Jack Dempsey is overrated?

[StarshipTrooper]

i think when doing a lis everything should be considered. and the main thing should be ACCOMPLISHMENTS! and for me demspey is just to high!

I'm concerned with who would win. Lennox Lewis may have a nice list of accomplishments but those won't stop him from getting crushed if put in the ring against, say, Sonny Liston, who doesn't have that sort of list.

There isn't anything unusual about this sort of thing: Sportsfans have been doing it from time immemorial. They talk about "could the '72 Dolphins hang with the '79 Steelers" or "how the '27 Yankees would do against the '86 Mets" ect. Boxing is no different.

Poet

[Gettin Jiggy]

I'm concerned with who would win. Lennox Lewis may have a nice list of accomplishments but those won't stop him from getting crushed if put in the ring against, say, Sonny Liston, who doesn't have that sort of list.

There isn't anything unusual about this sort of thing: Sportsfans have been doing it from time immemorial. They talk about "could the '72 Dolphins hang with the '79 Steelers" or "how the '27 Yankees would do against the '86 Mets" ect. Boxing is no different.

Poet

personally i dont think. you should judge of fantasy fights who should be were. because for instance, do you judge who goes higher in a 160 list, by putting ketchel and hopkins in a fantasy fight? when there era's were so different and there fighting styles were?

[StarshipTrooper]

personally i dont think. you should judge of fantasy fights who should be were. because for instance, do you judge who goes higher in a 160 list, by putting ketchel and hopkins in a fantasy fight? when there era's were so different and there fighting styles were?

If you go to the thread that is "stickied" at the top of this section, the "All-Time Heavyweight" thread, and read from the beginning you'll see how these lists came about. Most of the factors that were used to determine THOSE rankings were based on ability as well: Defense, foot speed, hand speed, chin, ect. ect. ect.

The point is, sportsfans have traditionally discussed "who was better" not who won the most titles or made the most defenses or held the belt the longest.

Poet

[Gettin Jiggy]

If you go to the thread that is "stickied" at the top of this section, the "All-Time Heavyweight" thread, and read from the beginning you'll see how these lists came about. Most of the factors that were used to determine THOSE rankings were based on ability as well: Defense, foot speed, hand speed, chin, ect. ect. ect.

The point is, sportsfans have traditionally discussed "who was better" not who won the most titles or made the most defenses or held the belt the longest.

Poet

well i have heard lots of boxing people judge on accomplishments! which i think is the main thing not abiltiy! just shocking that willis is in the list but not lewis. and dempsey is to high!

[StarshipTrooper]

well i have heard lots of boxing people judge on accomplishments! which i think is the main thing not abiltiy! just shocking that willis is in the list but not lewis. and dempsey is to high!

There are people on this forum who only consider accomplishments. There are others who don't. People have different ways of looking at things. I don't object to discussing accomplishments but I DO consider it a separate discussion from "who's better, who's best?"

Poet

[Gettin Jiggy]

There are people on this forum who only consider accomplishments. There are others who don't. People have different ways of looking at things. I don't object to discussing accomplishments but I DO consider it a separate discussion from "who's better, who's best?"

Poet

fair enought dude, its ya opinion and ya sticking with it!

[GJC]

Sugar isn't that old. He isn't old enough to have seen Louis live, atleast a prime Louis.

I think he quite simply overrates Dempsey, perhaps due to his popularity. When it comes down to it, Dempsey's resume is no better than Harry Wills', in fact it's probably worse. Most don't rate Wills as top 50, Sugar has him at #82.

top ten pfp ATG is too high, top ten HW for sure IMO.
Said before I have a lot of respect for Wills and his record and he should have got his shot.
I do kind of think not fighting Dempsey has helped his rep because I think his style was made for Dempsey personally. Big and not particularily fast was a style that Dempsey thrived on. As for Greb, great middle but I think HW was a weight too far so to speak.
I realise the legend that he used to school Dempsey in sparring makes many think he would have beaten him in the ring but it is apples and oranges. Ali used to look dreadful in sparring by all accounts but didn't lose too many in the ring.

[TheGreatA]

top ten pfp ATG is too high, top ten HW for sure IMO.
Said before I have a lot of respect for Wills and his record and he should have got his shot.
I do kind of think not fighting Dempsey has helped his rep because I think his style was made for Dempsey personally. Big and not particularily fast was a style that Dempsey thrived on. As for Greb, great middle but I think HW was a weight too far so to speak.
I realise the legend that he used to school Dempsey in sparring makes many think he would have beaten him in the ring but it is apples and oranges. Ali used to look dreadful in sparring by all accounts but didn't lose too many in the ring.

I also think that Wills was somewhat "lucky" not to fight Dempsey but then again I've never seen any footage of a prime Harry Wills, only clips of him in his late 30's. Still, it's a fight that should have happened, Wills was Dempsey's number 1 contender for the length of his reign from 1919 until the end of it.

Greb was a middleweight but he had beaten the best heavyweights (the same men Dempsey fought and sometimes struggled with) and did give Dempsey all he could handle in sparring. He wanted a shot at Dempsey but never got it.

[Gettin Jiggy]

I also think that Wills was somewhat "lucky" not to fight Dempsey but then again I've never seen any footage of a prime Harry Wills, only clips of him in his late 30's. Still, it's a fight that should have happened, Wills was Dempsey's number 1 contender for the length of his reign from 1919 until the end of it.

Greb was a middleweight but he had beaten the best heavyweights (the same men Dempsey fought and sometimes struggled with) and did give Dempsey all he could handle in sparring. He wanted a shot at Dempsey but never got it.

let me ask you. who would you have higher in a ATG Heavyweight List Willis or Lennox Lewis? and were would you put Lewis?

[TheGreatA]

let me ask you. who would you have higher in a ATG Heavyweight List Willis or Lennox Lewis? and were would you put Lewis?

I have a tough time rating Wills because there's little footage of him and he never won the title (never got a shot at it either). At the same time he had a great resume and went practically unbeaten for 10 years save for two freak incidents (an early DQ loss and a hand injury).

I think very highly of Lennox Lewis who fought the best of his time and beat everyone he ever faced. He had two bad losses and the best fighters he beat were not at their best but he was also ducked during the mid 90's.

I would rate Lewis above Wills, mainly because he did eventually get a shot at proving his greatness against Holyfield and Tyson while Wills never did.