Computer Tournament - The Middleweights

[Greatest1942]

Here are links to the Chip fight... see if you can score even ONE Round for Chip... sorry about the order of them,... Part 1 is the beginning of the fight,... there are only a few seconds cut out.... http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...=497729&page=3.. http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...=497729&page=4

I said that if darcy was in America the KO Brown and Clabby would have managed a newspaper decision..you disagree?

[Greatest1942]

"10 rounds"

gene Tunney beat Dempsey in 10 rounds...and the fight was agreed on...most fights went 10 rounds any way...few were scheduled higher. They had to agree, it appears that they had to sign a contract and I think darcy would have got a chance to say what he thought.

Firstly why should Mike box 20 rounds? Just because Darcy liked it more...and lastly there is not an iota of evidence that he would have fared any less.


I gave the newspaper report which stated what Darcy thought about a future 10 rounder with Gibbons.

[McGoorty]

.....

"Oh so he fights like a gutless modern fighter by getting on his bike ???.... I thought we were talking about a real fighter ???" I was being cheeky I admit..... It's just that I hate 12 round fights let alone 10 round ND contests which is what O'Sukkivan wanted to get Gibbons for... no wonder darcy got rid of this guy... I was as I said just being flippant... I apologise to mike for that.... But I think that short bouts are made for the quick boxer, Darcy was not used to ten round fights, he didn't fight under 20 rounds since he was 15......... as I said, a proper fight is one of endurance, how many times have you been bored stiff by watching Mr. Slick on his bike and outscoring in patches.... that is the main complaint Hagler fans have with the SRL fight,..... Leonard made Hagler miss at times and scored a lot more, but it never became a fight..... I sort of understand what they mean.

Most guys avoided Mike, I dont think you should call a guy who fought mcGoorty and Dillon while giving 10 pounds gut less...

I have given the quotes tunney said about Gibbons...Gibbons was rated as the best by most who saw him...I have given that too...he was ranked in the top 10 by Nat and other old timers who saw him... Agreed, but Fleisher rated Darcy higher if I remember right. But you can't take guys like Loughran who never saw Darcy fight.


Lastly I dont think you call Gene Tunney a runner or Ali...Mike Gibbons was the predeseccor of Tunney, since he by his own admittance copied Gibbons.

Now you cll Gibbons a spook.

Consider this, a guy lands from a far off country and decalres that o Sullivan is his manager(No darcy hater this, this is a documented quote), that guy signs a fight with Mike, later when the fight comes Les says he has fired that guy and wont fight Gibbons.

Well if I was Gibbons I would consider thata duck...let aside your bias and think this once please. O'Sullivan mislead Darcy, and he most probably,... no I'll change that,... he did lie to Mike... Tim was a liar... have you ever considered that O'Sullivan got Gibbons name, on an un-authorised contract.... I'm inclined to trust Darcy's word a hundred times over O'Sukkivan who was not what he appeared at first... it's quite well known this.

And yea, I don't think Les ducked Gibbons but it might have appeared to Gibbons that Darcy was giving him the slip. (news paper reprots already provided)

Gibbons KO % is a bit misleading, I have documented quotes of Mcfarland claiming that the only thing he feared about Gibbons was his right hand.
Plus he did KO mcGoorty earlier than Darcy managed once (KO 5). George "K.O." Brown KOd in one round (common opponent). Ahearns KO 1. His right hand is underrated. I will give you evidence later. It must be underated, I agree, that game gives him just 1 out of 15 or something, and that is just wrong.

I have seen every bit of video on Darcy, more than most. I still think Mike holds the edge by a good margin. Well I have not seen gibbons.... you are the only one I've ever heard mention of a MG film. But I've seen film of say Basilio and a Smarter boxer on different films... and I think to myself... how could Basilio have a hope... then KaPOW !!!... guy's hurt, Basilio wins by big margin..... Maybe the film quality of the Gibbons fight is way better condition, therefore he may look better... you know that I won't change my mind on who I think wins this fight..... There is also a hell of a lot of BIG evidence for Darcy..... sometimes original sources are far from the truth... hindsight can be very useful in finding the truth.... That's why Swanwick wrote his book..... YOU MUST READ THAT BOOK... until you have, you won't hear his argument put properly... I'm not as good at this as he is.

Lastly I read all kinds of paper pro Darcy and other wise...I form an opinion from the primary sources always.

I was being CHEEKY..... LOL....explained above as best I can.

[McGoorty]

I said that if darcy was in America the KO Brown and Clabby would have managed a newspaper decision..you disagree?

No that's just there for the Chip fight, I was showing you that I have the NINE rounds... and as for the Clabby & Brown fights, it seems that Darcy was crowned the winner by the referee, and that judges had him winning those fights by wide margins, in the second Clabby fight, Darcy was ill and had badly bruised hands, but he showed how much he could box... he outboxed Clabby but only had one good hand to hit with any power...... Maybe One U.S. newspaper or two has either winning a newspaper decision... but they would have to be biased...... Darcy won those 4 fights,... thankfully they were not ND contests..... At least Australia always had decisions,.. and all top fights were over 20 rounds...... It isn't unfair for Gibbons to fight over 20 rounds with Les... Mike did have some experience with 20 round fights... those were the real Gibbons fights.

[McGoorty]

"10 rounds"

gene Tunney beat Dempsey in 10 rounds...and the fight was agreed on...most fights went 10 rounds any way...few were scheduled higher. They had to agree, it appears that they had to sign a contract and I think darcy would have got a chance to say what he thought. It was totally unusual at the time,..... 10 round fights with judges results seem to be very rare then... those fights were because Vaudeville made Dempsey fat... it was Jack not Gene who insisted on the easier route

Firstly why should Mike box 20 rounds? Just because Darcy liked it more...and lastly there is not an iota of evidence that he would have fared any less. RE my previous post.


I gave the newspaper report which stated what Darcy thought about a future 10 rounder with Gibbons.

Can you believe that Darcy's younger brother, who was also a boxer, Frank FROSTY Darcy,..... died just two years later......... oh man, how his poor mum must have suffered,....... The family also had about three children who died as baby's....... hard hard life the Darcy clan had.

[McGoorty]

Just to illustrate that why I think the Gibbons fight did not come up due to internal Darcy squabbles than American interference---

Associated Press
New York, Feb. 16.--Les Darcy to-day began to be about as unpopular with the sport-loving public in New York as it is possible for a man who has been placed upon a pedestal. Following the announcement that he did not intend to live up to a contract signed for him by Tim O'Sullivan, his manager, calling for bouts in Milwaukee with Jeff Smith of Jercey City and Mike Gibbons, Darcy stated that O'Sullivan had been dismissed as his manager last Tuesday.
He, apparently, forgot that on his trip to New York Bay from the Standard Oil tank ship Cushing he had told several persons aboard a tug, including Tex Rickard, Tom O'Rourke and Charles Harvey, that O'Sullivan and no one else would act in this country as his manager.
To-day Darcy declared that O'Sullivan never had been his manager, but had been employed as agent, and never had been authorized to make matches.


International News
New York, Feb. 16.--Les Darcy's denial that he authorized the signing of articles to box Mike Gibbons in Milwaukee April 10 left promoters in a quandary here today. Darcy flatly refused to talk with Gibbons last Tuesday, and the action of E. T. O'Sullivan in signing for the Gibbons bout, caused the Maitland wonder to rise in wrath. Darcy said today he has dismissed O'Sullivan as his manager. O'Sullivan denied Darcy's right to do so. Each side has retained counsel to settle the difficulty.


NY Tribune, Feb. 16
Les Darcy, the Australian 'cross-country and transoceanic runner, has severed connections with Tim O'Sullivan, the man who smuggled him out of Australia and kept him out of the trenches. He will probably be with the Curley-Jones-Willard syndicate boxing safeties before the month is over.
The following letter from Darcy was received last night:
To the Sporting Editor.
Dear Sir: My attention has been called to an article in the sporting columns of this morning's papers announcing that E. T. O'Sullivan has signed a contract for me to box Mike Gibbons in Milwaukee on April 10.
I beg to notify you that I have made no contract whatever to box Mike Gibbons on April 10 or at any other time. Neither have I authorized E. T. O'Sullivan or any one else to do so in my behalf.
No one has authority to sign articles for me without my approval.
Mr. E. T. O'Sullivan is no longer in my employ, either as trainer or otherwise, having been dismissed Tuesday, February 13, 1917. Yours truly,
LES DARCY.


NY Tribune, Feb. 17
Les us consider the case of James Lester Darcy, the champion of Australia, who arrived here some three months ago. He announced immediately upon landing that he would engage in about three bouts with the best men in his class, ship the profits back to his indigent family and sail for London to enlist for overseas service and fight "for the empire."
After doing a turn on the burlesque circuit Darcy decided that he would box Al McCoy, popularly known as the cheese champion, for the modest sum of $30,000. After that he would look about him for other set-ups and other theatrical engagements. As soon as Darcy's manager, E. T. O'Sullivan, signed him up with Mike Gibbons, whom Darcy regards as dangerous, the Australian hero immediately severed connections with his manager......


Now now read this reports from earlier :-

1916-12-24 New-York Tribune (page S1)
By W. O. M'GEEHAN
Darcy arrived on the Standard Oil tanker Cushing, after an adventurous journey from Australia, which consumed over two months. His trainer and acting manager, J. G. O'Sullivan, accompanied him. On the Cushing, Darcy was travelling under the name of Dawson, having shipped as a fireman.

I haven't heard you mention that Gibbons was invited to Australia, why didn't Gibbons go after the bigger money to be had in Australia, there was a lot of talk about getting Gibbons to Australia, read it anyway because it's got some real good stuff in it. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...YFMOty_Bxa3RNg

[McGoorty]

I said that if darcy was in America the KO Brown and Clabby would have managed a newspaper decision..you disagree?

Here is a classic comment from Clabby in the early 20's.... you should lol at this... I'll give you the link but it's in there amonsgt other stuff so I'll write the bit out,... It made me laugh, and it shows Clabby's humour. ---- ; A small group was at the fights and they were discussing Darcy, and Clabby was there. Jimmy broke into the conversation, "Look here, there's only one guy in the world that can fight Darcy, and that's me." said Clabby. "How do you make that out, Jim ???.. He beat you badly.". replied another. ---"Maybe, but I'm the only man in the world who can fight Darcy, all the same. You see, I can't hit him hard enough to hurt him, and make him angry, and so he let's me off of a knockout. Every guy that hurts Darcy get's knocked (out), Sure."..... said Clabby.... lol..lol...lol.. I like Clabby, he never let his ego get in the way of the truth... there's stuff about the upcoming Dempsey V Carpentier fight, ( gee, I hope Carpentier goes well )...... the link >> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...y76tFLR1C_gDsQ

[Greatest1942]

I haven't heard you mention that Gibbons was invited to Australia, why didn't Gibbons go after the bigger money to be had in Australia, there was a lot of talk about getting Gibbons to Australia, read it anyway because it's got some real good stuff in it. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...YFMOty_Bxa3RNg

I thought we were discussing what happened after Darcy came to USA...I read that already...as I told ya, I read almost everything there is...Proof I gave you some very rare pro darcy cuttings too mate

If Darcy had Gibbons. al McCoy, Smith , Clabby all in Australia , I doubt he would have come to USA. He came because he ran out of opponents and wanted to make more emoney...Gibbons knew he had opponents here and also could make comparative money also. naturally he did not go...

"It was totally unusual at the time,..... 10 round fights with judges results seem to be very rare then... those fights "
Agreed, but 10 rounds were not that bad. LOL . Besides the Darcy and Gibbons affair would probably have been a 10 rounder.

"O'Sullivan mislead Darcy, and he most probably,... no "

My point was simply to show you how Gibbons might have felt...Its not about trusting O'Sullivan or Darcy...its about Gibbons side.

"Gibbons Film"

I saw two films of Mike Gibbons, oen with him and Tom sparring, which really showed of his foot speed.

Two, was his in his last fight...it was a very good film and showed off great skills...They were in Youtube too but I checked they have been deleted now.

The only proof I can give now (they existed) is that if you go to CBZ even now and check Mike Gibbons page you will find those clips referenced, but they don't work.

I dont know about Basillo, but you can see gene Tunney and imagine a smaller 152 version of him , you will get close ( as for Mike Gibbons)

Lastly Mike Gibbons died young too...and his son was a boxer too.

[Greatest1942]

No that's just there for the Chip fight, I was showing you that I have the NINE rounds... and as for the Clabby & Brown fights, it seems that Darcy was crowned the winner by the referee, and that judges had him winning those fights by wide margins, in the second Clabby fight, Darcy was ill and had badly bruised hands, but he showed how much he could box... he outboxed Clabby but only had one good hand to hit with any power...... Maybe One U.S. newspaper or two has either winning a newspaper decision... but they would have to be biased...... Darcy won those 4 fights,... thankfully they were not ND contests..... At least Australia always had decisions,.. and all top fights were over 20 rounds...... It isn't unfair for Gibbons to fight over 20 rounds with Les... Mike did have some experience with 20 round fights... those were the real Gibbons fights.

I know about those fights...inspite of all those there were quotes liek "KO brown almost held Darcy" etc etc....You can trust me that if those were in America some newspaper would have given them decisions...

Thats why it becomes very hard to research.

I dont say its unfair for Mike to fight 20 rounders, but generally he performed beter in 10 rounds...The humbling that he gave Dillon is arguably one of teh best performnaces of all time...It was one of the few times when every paper unanimously choose a boxer over other..I repeat every paper..

Point is Mike would have probably fought 10 rounder and even if he did 20 rounder I think he will do well (atleast we have no evidence to the contary).

"Real Fight"
Do you mean to say others were fake fight?

[McGoorty]

I know about those fights...inspite of all those there were quotes liek "KO brown almost held Darcy" etc etc....You can trust me that if those were in America some newspaper would have given them decisions...

Thats why it becomes very hard to research.

I dont say its unfair for Mike to fight 20 rounders, but generally he performed beter in 10 rounds...The humbling that he gave Dillon is arguably one of teh best performnaces of all time...It was one of the few times when every paper unanimously choose a boxer over other..I repeat every paper..

Point is Mike would have probably fought 10 rounder and even if he did 20 rounder I think he will do well (atleast we have no evidence to the contary).

"Real Fight"
Do you mean to say others were fake fight?

Many ND's were crooked, yes I believe that, not saying all mind you, you must agree there is little point in a ND contest, UNLESS THERE IS A knockout,..... I tell you I just don't get them mate.... at all. Les may have been gullible enough to sign a 10 rd'r, but you do recognize that Darcy was NOT a 10 rd fight, there wouldn't be a knockout in 10 rounds so we'd be left with more conjecture than if they didn't fight..... I wouldn't trust what the newspapers said while the smear campaign was on.... in that climate, Darcy KO's say Rowlands in the first....... those lying newspapers would say that Darcy was losing on points and the referee never saw the foul. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I shouldn't have been so casual in my first comment.................. I gave you that Clabby statement because it's true... if you hurt Darcy with a shot,... he took you OUT,... KO'd every fighter that ever upset him. I think Darcy's feelings were being played the same way Gibbons did........... I think that Gibbons is almost as much as a victim as Les was......... I only wish Darcy had a few more years,.... I think he badly hurts Gibbons with at least one big KD....... and You think Gibbons outboxes Les and shows him up as a bit primitive,.... or at least few boxing skills. ------- maybe I'm slightly off there........ I think Les had great boxing skills..... and a match for anyone.