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  • #41
    Originally posted by Greatest1942 View Post
    "Darcy is post-modern-U.S.-revisionism"

    1) You accuse the wrong person my friend...I am not from USA neither I live there

    2) Many contemporaries thought Darcy was overrated...Not me

    3)many contemporaries said Gibbon was better

    4) I dont think Darcy was "slacker"

    I think Gibbons was better...his resume proves it
    I also note that although Clabby beat Mike in their first fight, Jimmy had twice as many fights as Mike but Mike was the first fighter with any sort of a name Clabby ever fought... At that stage Clabby was only fighting 6 round prelim fights... Gibbons was the first decent boxer that I can see on Clabby's record....... So Gibbons has not much excuse there.... Remember this too,..... by the age that Gibbons was when he fought Clabby for the first time, 22 and a couple of months....... Les Darcy had completed his entire career and died... Gibbons doesn't come near Darcy level isn't until he's at least 27 or 28............... Now for him to be better than Darcy, you must be assuming that Darcy would have gotten worse as he went in to his mid twenties...... mate, he'd have to go backwards to be at his Eighteen and a half year old stage........ I think Darcy might have been twice as good in 1922 as in 1916......... It would go against all common sense.

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by McGoorty View Post
      I also note that although Clabby beat Mike in their first fight, Jimmy had twice as many fights as Mike but Mike was the first fighter with any sort of a name Clabby ever fought... At that stage Clabby was only fighting 6 round prelim fights... Gibbons was the first decent boxer that I can see on Clabby's record....... So Gibbons has not much excuse there.... Remember this too,..... by the age that Gibbons was when he fought Clabby for the first time, 22 and a couple of months....... Les Darcy had completed his entire career and died... Gibbons doesn't come near Darcy level isn't until he's at least 27 or 28............... Now for him to be better than Darcy, you must be assuming that Darcy would have gotten worse as he went in to his mid twenties...... mate, he'd have to go backwards to be at his Eighteen and a half year old stage........ I think Darcy might have been twice as good in 1922 as in 1916......... It would go against all common sense.
      When Clabby- Gibbons happened gibbons did not have ten fights...When Darcy lost to Fritz Holland (who was far inferior to him or Gibbons.) he clearly had more fights and was more experienced...How do you explain this? By Darcy's age of course...By the way they(gibbons and clabby) fought again, and Clabby was outclassed badly and admitted defeat.

      Here are some reports:-

      http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...s+clabby&hl=en

      http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...s+clabby&hl=en

      GIBBONS OUTPOINTS JIM CLABBY IN RING; Cleverness of St. Paul Boxer Earns Him Popular Decision in a Ten-Round Bout.

      MILWAUKEE, Wis., Jan. 21. -- Mike Gibbons of St. Paul had a shade over Jimmy Clabby of Hammond, Ind., middleweight, in a ten-round no-decision boxing bout tonight, according to a majority of sporting writers at the ringside.

      So Clabby got outclassed badly when Gibbons matured...it appears he did wipe the floor with Clabby too.


      Besides I can prove that McFarland had only one pound disadvantage against Gibbons...Whether he was a lightweight once doesnt matter...What matters was their weighs when they fought...Sugar Ray was ranked as a lightweight once too...you know...

      Gibbons weighed 153 and McFarland 152...heres the source

      http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...cfarland&hl=en

      Besides like you called a Les Darcy loss disputed...I can give you actual sources for this one...

      The Associated Press, which tabbed the fight 7-2-1 for Gibbons.(Yea that one sided). The New York Times and referee Billy Job called it a draw, which is how the contest is most often recorded today...

      Well you can read a summary here...it is headlined

      BIG DIFFERENCE OF OPINION AMONG EXPERTS AS RESULT OF GIBBONS - MCFARLAND SCRAP...

      THE UNITED PRESS SAYS mcfarland WON AND AP SAYS gibbons WON...

      Here is another report favouring Gibbons:-
      http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...nd+round&hl=en

      Here is one favouring a draw (the ny times)
      http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...D1405B858DF1D3

      Okay????


      Well as for better at young age? Darcy was brilliant at his age..Gibbons was kind of late bloomer...

      We have seen this...Tyson was better at 21 than Ali was...Busther Mathis beat Frazier at Olympic trials so he was better at that age...we all know what happened next...

      Besides I don't get the point it appears you hold Gibbons loss in second year against him..yet you give Darcy the pass...

      Yep , Clabby did worse against Darcy, but when Gibbons matured he got outclassed ...Gibbons also did better against some common opponents...

      Lastly what Darcy thought of Dillon does not matter..Dillon was bigger than anyone Darcy faced...and would have been his best test.
      Last edited by Greatest1942; 09-17-2011, 01:56 PM.

      Comment


      • #43
        Here is an article hailing Gibbons as the champ(of Australia and USA) over Mccoy and smith

        http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...mcgoorty&hl=en

        Another interesting article of Gibbons

        http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...ff+smith&hl=en

        Here is a bit of controversial artcile, it Claims that Gibbons was trying to force Darcy to a a match without any succees

        http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en


        Here is another saying Gibbons chased in vain :-

        http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

        Here is another saying Darcy to "Either fight or shut up"
        http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

        Here is another article on the same line which also says that Smith hates Darcy and in Australia he was a victim of a put up job and darcy was falsely declared winner on fouls

        http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

        Here is another

        http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...contract&hl=en

        and another
        http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi...9170331.2.63.3

        an overwhemling majority wanted ro match him against Gibbons as most saw that the big test lay there...not only Dillon...it was Gibbons then Dillon
        Last edited by Greatest1942; 09-17-2011, 06:10 AM.

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by Greatest1942 View Post
          Here is an article hailing Gibbons as the champ(of Australia and USA) over Mccoy and smith

          http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...mcgoorty&hl=en

          Another interesting article of Gibbons

          http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...ff+smith&hl=en

          Here is a bit of controversial artcile, it Claims that Gibbons was trying to force Darcy to a a match without any succees

          http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en


          Here is another saying Gibbons chased in vain :-

          http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

          Here is another saying Darcy to "Either fight or shut up"
          http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

          Here is another article on the same line which also says that Smith hates Darcy and in Australia he was a victim of a put up job and darcy was falsely declared winner on fouls

          http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

          Here is another

          http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...contract&hl=en

          and another
          http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi...9170331.2.63.3

          an overwhemling majority wanted ro match him against Gibbons as most saw that the big test lay there...not only Dillon...it was Gibbons then Dillon
          I can also prove that Jeff Smith is lying... he was crooked..... of course he hates Darcy and Australia..... I can also tell you that Snowy Baker was crooked, and Hugh D. McIntosh, these guys told Darcy that Jack Kearns was bent too.... and they all were.... Darcy on the other hand was clean, Smith is bitter, he was beaten soundly in the second fight. I appreciate all the sources, I know they are basically all to do with McIntosh and Billy Hughes's government...... I beg you to understand the power and influence, the U.S. knew they were going to go to war soon, and Australia suddenly became important to the U.S..................... there are thousands here that know that they wanted to get control of him..... mate, why all the fuss, if Darcy isn't the hottest prospect, and any top promoters and managers want his contract.... As my Darcy thread gets updated, I can demonstrate the amount of opposition Darcy had......... Gibbons was lucky to be a late bloomer, instead of a youngster, in a foreign land with everybody he meets trying to get a piece of him,... and not ONE single bit of helpful advice. ....... I will read every link you put up there......... I can tell that the McFarland fight,...... more Newspapers gave Packey the decision,... but a fat McFarland, still seems to have the edge, and McFarland is almost without peer..... Yes as I have now stated a dozen times that Mike is a great fighter...... but I think most evidence points to Darcy still..... Les also fought some really good fighters that Mike didn't.... Dave Smith has a victory over some great fighters, including Billy Papke......... Darcy fought at least Ten top-notchers too... ------------------------------------------- I have noticed quite a few quotes above that I can refute. Clabby was fighting prelim 6 round fighters until he met Mike.... Harry Greb had but 14 fights when Greb lost a narrow newspaper decision........ But I state here and now, Darcy was more experienced because he only fought 20 rounders, whereas Gibbons is only edging guys out in ND 10 rounders.ONLY HALF FIGHTS... and corrupt to the max....... How can that compare to Darcy's career.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Your biggest misstatement though is your opinion that Darcy never fought a guy of Jack Dillons size..... bollocks.... Dave Smith, Les O'Donnell, Hardwicke were as big and bigger....... and Fred Fulton, was 6 x6 .... and about 235 pounds, Darcy beat him up badly,..... made Fulton quit after JUST TWO ROUNDS.... a spar you say ???.... there are people here who use sparring here to strengthen their claims for guys like Greb.............. Darcy could take the punch from the biggest HW's... and then he usually knocked them out....... And BTW, common opponent George K.O. Brown, was as big as Dillon...... they weighed the same...... lastly what is Gibbons reach.......... and Mike rose higher after Darcy's death,... and until Darcy died... Les's resume was much better than Gibbons's, I'm going to boxrec.... and I'm gound to draw a line between Gibbons Pre 1917,.... and then after 1917........ then I'll read all your articles.............. Are you related to Bulldogs ???...... you have a bit of LaMotta in you.. you hate to admit defeat........ But we'll see, how this debate goes...... I wonder what the rest of you think ???..... Darcy or Gibbons ?????

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by Greatest1942 View Post
            Here is an article hailing Gibbons as the champ(of Australia and USA) over Mccoy and smith

            http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...mcgoorty&hl=en

            Another interesting article of Gibbons

            http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...ff+smith&hl=en

            Here is a bit of controversial artcile, it Claims that Gibbons was trying to force Darcy to a a match without any succees

            http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en


            Here is another saying Gibbons chased in vain :-

            http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

            Here is another saying Darcy to "Either fight or shut up"
            http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

            Here is another article on the same line which also says that Smith hates Darcy and in Australia he was a victim of a put up job and darcy was falsely declared winner on fouls

            http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

            Here is another

            http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...contract&hl=en

            and another
            http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi...9170331.2.63.3

            an overwhemling majority wanted ro match him against Gibbons as most saw that the big test lay there...not only Dillon...it was Gibbons then Dillon
            Just from that last paragraph and claims Darcy dodged Gibbons.......... If you really know Darcy, you would know that Darcy was DESPERATE TO FIGHT MIKE, DESPERATE TO FIGHT ANYONE.......it just flies in the face of the real fact...... LES NEEDED TO FIGHT... HE LOVED TO FIGHT.....AND DODGED NOBODY EVER...... Just look at his 50 fight career, and tell me ONE NAME, That Les Dodged in Australia........ The KID never refused a fight. never. In fact he had signed to fight Dillon,..... was it fright that Darcy died of ????.......... This is THE LES DARCY we are talking about,... not some yellow gutless wonder,..... I ask you...... He was a virtual bamtamweight and only 14 when he fought a 28 year old veteran pug,...... does the word "Ducked" come to mind now,.. of course not, and by the way.... that blokes name was Guv'nor Balsa.... and he was a lightweight... No way a Kid with a ducker mentality,... takes on and BEATS in 11 rounds,......... No Mate, Les wanted Gibbons bad, was looking forward to it....... and it is a FACT...... newspapers sometimes print what they are paid to print........... Jeff Smith was humiliated by a nineteen year old........ you name me a single other MW who Jeff SMITh doesn't annihilate and probably Kill ?????........ Les Darcy was not anywhere near normal, he is a total boxing freak.

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by Greatest1942 View Post
              Here is an article hailing Gibbons as the champ(of Australia and USA) over Mccoy and smith

              http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...mcgoorty&hl=en Al McCoy fight was a ND..... but isn't it interesting to see that McCoy was called NOT world champion,.. but just Champion of the U.S.A...... do you agree that Albert McCoy is very much a pretender ????..... He whalloped Billy Murray...... well Murray was annihilated by Darcy and Chip,... and McCoy never defended his title once........ yeah I'd say Darcy was the real king....... But Mike cannot be considered The Australian champ, impossible..... Gibbons NEVER WENT THERE..... To be Australian title holder you had to sign with McIntosh and go to Aussie........ an incredibly weak title claim... You can blame Albert McCoy for Mike not being officially American champion...... In fact 95% of all "World Titles", were in actual fact,... Champions of America only.

              Another interesting article of Gibbons

              http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...ff+smith&hl=en O.K. this article has many flaws in your argument..... I'll clear up the dodge issue now.... Darcy wasn't ducking Gibbons... he was banned from fighting by the governors of nearly every state.... Gibbons is the victim of International politics here, Darcy never ducked him ------------- and please explain how the great Mike Gibbons loses against a nobody like Soldier Bartfield ??????..... maybe injury, I don't know,.. but Darcy never ever ever got beat by a Bartfield....... Whitelaw would beat Bartfield senseless.... maybe there's a simple reason for it.... but I haven't found a reason for a prime Gibbons to put up such a shocker..... you show me a single Darcy shocker..... I think his second fight with Clabby was his only real ordinary performance.... and he won that comfortably on points.... Soldier Bartfield Vs Sugar Ray Robinson wouldn't cause much excitement/

              Here is a bit of controversial artcile, it Claims that Gibbons was trying to force Darcy to a a match without any succees

              http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en


              Here is another saying Gibbons chased in vain :-

              http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

              Here is another saying Darcy to "Either fight or shut up"
              http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

              Here is another article on the same line which also says that Smith hates Darcy and in Australia he was a victim of a put up job and darcy was falsely declared winner on fouls Nothing at all said against Darcy, apart from loser Smith..... But there's one passage that suggest the Mike wasn't liked by the locals due to some poor performances.. and I quote, "Many of the critics are inclined to throw cold water on Mike's demand for a match. The folks don't like Mike because he showed a few bad fights around these parts". then the writer goes on........ 10 round ND fights are rubbish fights anyway

              http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

              Here is another

              http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...contract&hl=en

              and another
              http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi...9170331.2.63.3

              an overwhemling majority wanted ro match him against Gibbons as most saw that the big test lay there...not only Dillon...it was Gibbons then Dillon
              That's all for now mate..... you have left me a weeks work..... you big MEANIE..... LOL.

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by Greatest1942 View Post
                Here is an article hailing Gibbons as the champ(of Australia and USA) over Mccoy and smith

                http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...mcgoorty&hl=en

                Another interesting article of Gibbons

                http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...ff+smith&hl=en

                Here is a bit of controversial artcile, it Claims that Gibbons was trying to force Darcy to a a match without any succees

                http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en


                Here is another saying Gibbons chased in vain :-

                http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

                Here is another saying Darcy to "Either fight or shut up"
                http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

                Here is another article on the same line which also says that Smith hates Darcy and in Australia he was a victim of a put up job and darcy was falsely declared winner on fouls

                http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

                Here is another

                http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...contract&hl=en

                and another
                http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi...9170331.2.63.3 This newspaper is a Pro-Darcy story, if you read through it it states for Darcy.... I apologise To Abe Attell.... it was McGovern speouting all that crap.... McGOVERN NEVER SAW DARCY IN HIS LIFE..... Those statements prove that he was in Billy Hughes's pay.... because ask yourself this..... HOW CAN HE SAY THIS CRAP IF HE DOESN"T EVEN KNOW DARCY....... TERRIBLE LIAR TERRY McGOVERN WHO PAID JOE GANS TO TAKE A DIVE !!!!..... His word ain't worth SHI.......

                an overwhemling majority wanted ro match him against Gibbons as most saw that the big test lay there...not only Dillon...it was Gibbons then Dillon
                Yes, but Darcy wanted those fights.... but He Wanted Carpentier most along with Willard...... You know that Jess ducked Darcy..... any mention of Gibbons wanting Willard..... ????

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by Greatest1942 View Post
                  Here is an article hailing Gibbons as the champ(of Australia and USA) over Mccoy and smith

                  http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...mcgoorty&hl=en

                  Another interesting article of Gibbons

                  http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...ff+smith&hl=en

                  Here is a bit of controversial artcile, it Claims that Gibbons was trying to force Darcy to a a match without any succees

                  http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en


                  Here is another saying Gibbons chased in vain :-

                  http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

                  Here is another saying Darcy to "Either fight or shut up"
                  http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en This is a VILE article, it is completely lies, the entire lot, can't you see how this is a vicious put up job.... I bet the Bastards got a Lot of Aussie Pounds in CASH for this.... "Slacker" article, not once does it mentioned that he was banned...... Fighters were dodging him.... AND OF COURSE A FIGHT WITH McCoy WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO FANS.... It's For the UNDISPUTED WORLD TITLE..... Something that had not existed in the MW division since 1910.......... This is the worst journalism I've read for a long time...... ANYWAY IT'S all better explained in the Darcy Book Thread (I haven't reached that stage in the thread yet..... I have 1000's of words to post there before we get to it...... P.M. me if you want to know more.... once you've read the book through you will find out the truth...... if I haven't already said it a hundred times here so far.

                  Here is another article on the same line which also says that Smith hates Darcy and in Australia he was a victim of a put up job and darcy was falsely declared winner on fouls

                  http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

                  Here is another

                  http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...contract&hl=en

                  and another
                  http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi...9170331.2.63.3

                  an overwhemling majority wanted ro match him against Gibbons as most saw that the big test lay there...not only Dillon...it was Gibbons then Dillon
                  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Greatest1942 View Post
                    Here is an article hailing Gibbons as the champ(of Australia and USA) over Mccoy and smith

                    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...mcgoorty&hl=en

                    Another interesting article of Gibbons

                    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...ff+smith&hl=en

                    Here is a bit of controversial artcile, it Claims that Gibbons was trying to force Darcy to a a match without any succees

                    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en


                    Here is another saying Gibbons chased in vain :-

                    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

                    Here is another saying Darcy to "Either fight or shut up"
                    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

                    Here is another article on the same line which also says that Smith hates Darcy and in Australia he was a victim of a put up job and darcy was falsely declared winner on fouls

                    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

                    Here is another

                    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...contract&hl=en

                    and another
                    http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi...9170331.2.63.3

                    an overwhemling majority wanted ro match him against Gibbons as most saw that the big test lay there...not only Dillon...it was Gibbons then Dillon
                    Mate I just found this article where Jack Kearns say about Daecy in 1926... This is the stuff I'm talking about,, This Jack "Doc" Kearns claiming Darcy is the greatest Middleweight to ever live........ it's at the very botton in this Article about Darcy Victim Billy Murray.. here is that link,. >> http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      1) Gibbons wanted to fight Darcy bad, and same with Darcy...I know this

                      2) Gibbons was always a boring fighter not a crowd pleaser. No doubt the crowd did not like him...But he lost only 3 fights...in a long career...

                      3) P4P I think no one of the era had better or faster footwork, except may be Tunney. I have seen his footage and he is awesome.

                      4) I know about suspension...but it was no fault of Gibbons he was keen to fight Darcy and confident he will win, no doubt as was Darcy. People no doubt thought Darcy was dodging Gibbons...did you know that there are articles which say that Darcy actually priced himself out, and it was before he was banned..

                      I think though when the allegations were being made that Darcy was ducking
                      Gibbons, he was not banned...And I can prove that , though I think it was Rickard who was calling the shots and messed up.

                      http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...es+darcy&hl=en

                      This says endeavor of Darcy to squirm out of contract with Gibbons is being disliked..


                      I did not post those as I didnot have to...just wanted to prove to you that Gibbons was as confident that he will beat Darcy...I think I proved it plenty...we savvy?

                      5) I tried to prove there is always two sides of the coin. I didn't mean to demean Darcy..also I think it is clear Gibbons held the edge over Smith, McGoorty, Clabby (in his second fight he was outclassed and himself admitted this, source already provided) and Smith (whom Darcy lost to). Also beating some additional greats whom Darcy could not fight like Dillons who had almost 10 pounds advantage over Gibbons...Ted Kid Lewis was a great fighter...if I remember correctly he did not give more than 5 pounds to Gibbons , you call this a advantage...and I reapeat Bartfield got outclassed...

                      MIKE GIBBONS BEATS BARTFIELD
                      The Hartford Courant (1887-1922) - Hartford, Conn.
                      90 % newspaper say so...by the by, in those days you will find 10 % for anybody.

                      NZ Truth and another news paper gave it to Bartfield but the AP report and most others gave it to Gibbons as did the referee...I think if Darcy fought Clabby in America , Clabby might have found one paper...as it was a close fight.

                      He also outclassed Al McCoy badly (which is why I think he was the better claimant of the middle weight championship.



                      6) Gibbons did not lose to Bartfield most of the news paper gave him victory. I mentioned Dillons because I don't think Darcy beat anyone of the same size and skill.

                      7) I already know about mcCoy, he was a pretender, and Gibbons was better.

                      8) I quoted Smith just to prove that not everybody thought Darcy was the best...certainly not Smith.Lastly George "K.O." Brown, and another fighter who visited Australia named Milburn Saylor, both thought that Darcy was overrated. Again just to prove that he was not that evenly rated, as the best (Brown fought him and fought him well by the by)

                      9) "McFarland fight"-- The most influential newspaper had it a draw (NY times) and the referee had it a draw too...The associated press(one of the most influential ) gave it to Gibbons...I know this fight well....Gibbons got the vote of the majority or draw some gave it to McFarland ...Gibbons started well, and created a huge lead. The middle rounds were sort of even...But Gibbons tried and McFarland came back strongly...Some papers gave it to McFarland on this...most said Gibbon's early lead and work in the mid rounds was enough...I repeat I know this fight well...you will struggle to prove otherwise.

                      More ever as I already posted Gibbons had a one pound advantage only.

                      But hey , why are we arguing...you rate Darcy better I Gibbons...we are not going to change...lets agree to disagree....

                      too mate.
                      Last edited by Greatest1942; 09-17-2011, 01:59 PM.

                      Comment

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