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Why isnt Harry Wills....

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  • #31
    Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
    I wouldn't. Archie Moore was actually a very accomplished heavyweight with his overall record at the weight being 75 wins and only 3 losses (to Marciano, Patterson and Ali).

    Lewis had notable wins over heavyweights Red Burman, Al Ettore and Johnny Risko but Moore had a much more extensive resume with wins over Nino Valdes, Bob Baker, Clarence Henry, Jimmy Bivins, Bob Satterfield, Alejandro Lavorante and others which once earned him the number 1 challenger rating at heavyweight.
    Eh, Archie fought in a time where the Heavyweight Division was weaker. Bivins beat him when Bivins was actually still elite. Satterfield was nothing more than a KO artist with a glass jaw. And Moore was pretty much over the hill for most of his Heavyweight career.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Obama View Post
      Eh, Archie fought in a time where the Heavyweight Division was weaker. Bivins beat him when Bivins was actually still elite. Satterfield was nothing more than a KO artist with a glass jaw. And Moore was pretty much over the hill for most of his Heavyweight career.
      I don't know about the heavyweight division being weaker. The men Archie Moore fought were bigger and looked better on film to me (Valdes, Satterfield, Baker, Henry, Bivins).

      Moore in my opinion was at his best during the early 50's. Some might not agree because he was older then but I've seen his fights from different parts of his career and the 1950's are when he looks to be at his best to me, beating the likes of Harold Johnson, Joey Maxim, Valdes, Baker, Olson, etc.

      Bivins was still good at the time of their rematch and the third fight although not as good as during their first fight. Moore however was just a 168 lb middleweight (compared to 186 lb Bivins) by the time they first fought each other so it goes both ways.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
        I don't know about the heavyweight division being weaker. The men Archie Moore fought were bigger and looked better on film to me (Valdes, Satterfield, Baker, Henry, Bivins).

        Moore in my opinion was at his best during the early 50's. Some might not agree because he was older then but I've seen his fights from different parts of his career and the 1950's are when he looks to be at his best to me, beating the likes of Harold Johnson, Joey Maxim, Valdes, Baker, Olson, etc.

        Bivins was still good at the time of their rematch and the third fight although not as good as during their first fight. Moore however was just a 168 lb middleweight (compared to 186 lb Bivins) by the time they first fought each other so it goes both ways.
        I would have to agree that the EARLY 50s close out his prime. By the mid 50s he was playing Yo-Yo with his weight too much and it affected some of his performances negatively. So I'd say a prime Moore was around 1949 - 1954. He started fading in '54.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Obama View Post
          I would have to agree that the EARLY 50s close out his prime. By the mid 50s he was playing Yo-Yo with his weight too much and it affected some of his performances negatively. So I'd say a prime Moore was around 1949 - 1954. He started fading in '54.
          Actually, he was still prime before '49, but the shenanigans with him not properly preparing for certain fights ended then. He legitimately had more losses prior to this date because the competition was harder.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Southpaw16bf View Post
            Like I've said numerous times there is no dout Jack Demspey wanted nothing to do with Harry Greb, that is fact......
            ** You dears are priceless, thinking your little farts are facts.

            Jack gave Harry a job and put him in the queue to wait his turn for his 3 rds of sparring for the day, now, THAT, my little dear is fact.

            Here's a nice little interview with a 70ish Tommy Loughran who was a Dempsey sparring partner for the 1st Tunney fight. Funny how apocryphally generic the story is, just like your Greb porkies. Why, the feather duster Loughran has the iron chinned Dempsey on the verge of knockout after dicing him to bits after just a few rounds. Just think what he would have done to Dempsey and Wills in a real fight in 6 oz gloves!

            http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...4862/index.htm
            Last edited by LondonRingRules; 05-20-2009, 06:55 AM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by LondonRingRules View Post
              ** You dears are priceless, thinking your little farts are facts.

              Jack gave Harry a job and put him in the queue to wait his turn for his 3 rds of sparring for the day, now, THAT, my little dear is fact.

              Here's a nice little interview with a 70ish Tommy Loughran who was a Dempsey sparring partner for the 1st Tunney fight. Funny how apocryphally generic the story is, just like your Greb porkies. Why, the feather duster Loughran has the iron chinned Dempsey on the verge of knockout after dicing him to bits after just a few rounds. Just think what he would have done to Dempsey and Wills in a real fight in 6 oz gloves!

              http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...4862/index.htm
              Once again you continue to talk bogus, Loughran may have been beating up Dempey in sparring, but are you forgetting this was a Demspey who hadn't been in a ring for 3 years, as he was busy in Hollywood.

              Greb got Dempsey more much more in his prime years, from 1919 to 1923. And Demspey basically quit in one of the rounds with after getting his check bone split open saying that will do for today.

              After this Dempsey went even more afraid to fight Greb, and it was the cards a good few times. You really make me laugh, on how you compared the Greb/Demspey situation to James Toney/Wladmir Klitschko.

              Hmmm......Well in your eyes Toney must be beating up Wlad in sparring sessions and beating all the top contenders around to day, and the boxing magazines must be calling for this fight.......

              Your lack of boxing knowlodge is so pour, it makes me laugh. And it's a shame Demspey cound't build up enough anger to want to shut Greb's mouth as Greb would say to him ''when are you going to fight me you bum''

              And one more thing, you do know Greb defeated Tommy Loughran. Like I've told you before, go and do some research on Greb, you will learn alot, and realize just how good he was.
              Last edited by Southpaw16BF; 05-20-2009, 08:09 AM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Kid McCoy View Post
                Does he cite any? I only ask because those are the kind of details on Dempsey's mindset and thought processes which surely only Jack himself or someone close to him could have provided.
                Well this is a quote from his manager Jack Kearns
                ''Getting Desmpey to fight competitive fights was difficult because he wanted to retire undefeated''. ''Desmpey's contention is that if he retires undefeated as undfeated champion, he'd always in the future, be able to collect money as a showman in various capacities, whereas a defeated title holder, the present and coming generations would relegate him into the pugilistic discard''

                Kerans would go on to say ''Jack is painting mental pictures of himself as a grand old man being the hero of the ring as a undefeated champion''
                People around Demspey at that time, were also belived to of backed these statemenst up as true......

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Southpaw16bf View Post
                  Well this is a quote from his manager Jack Kearns

                  People around Demspey at that time, were also belived to of backed these statemenst up as true......
                  Was that before or after their split? Remember Kearns rarely missed an opportunity to discredit Dempsey after their fall out, also claiming that he'd soaked Dempsey's wraps in plaster of Paris prior to the Willard fight, which has since been debunked.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Kid McCoy View Post
                    Was that before or after their split? Remember Kearns rarely missed an opportunity to discredit Dempsey after their fall out, also claiming that he'd soaked Dempsey's wraps in plaster of Paris prior to the Willard fight, which has since been debunked.
                    Not sure, people who were around Dempsey said this was true.......But nothing is fact. And it may be lies.

                    But I think there is no hiding the fact that Dempsey didnt want a showdown with Greb.
                    Last edited by Southpaw16BF; 07-01-2009, 04:47 PM.

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