why isnt MONZON that leagiondary?

[Flicker Jab]

southpaw why not just post the link you copied all that stuff from /shrug

[Southpaw16BF]

southpaw why not just post the link you copied all that stuff from /shrug

well actually you can't post the link on this site, and I think it's easier just coping and pasting, why problem?

[glidesmack]

hopkins said monzon might beat robinson. my take on monzon is that he was too much of a freak to be considered an alltime great. Had genuinely disproportionate body, huge upper body with spindly legs. Caused by childhood illness I think. probably oversized neck and head as well for his weight.

[Obama]

I rate Monzon #7 MW:

Harry Greb
Sugar Ray Robinson
Sam Langford
Marvin Hagler
Bernard Hopkins
Stanley Ketchel
Carlos Monzon

Monzon kinda pulled a Calzaghe with his career. Didn't really fight anyone worth a damn till the tail end. Granted, he fought a LOT more credible opposition in the time span, but it would have been nice to see him tested against Champions like Benvenuti while they were still in their prime. And like Hopkins and Hagler, two of his signature wins came from beating ATG Welterweights. Of the guys I rated in the top 7, his style is the most ordinary. I think he could of beat Ketchel, but that's about it.

Also, Langford beat Ketchel and Flowers, so don't tell me I can't rate him as a MW.

[Southpaw16BF]

I rate Monzon #7 MW:

Harry Greb
Sugar Ray Robinson
Sam Langford
Marvin Hagler
Bernard Hopkins
Stanley Ketchel
Carlos Monzon

Monzon kinda pulled a Calzaghe with his career. Didn't really fight anyone worth a damn till the tail end. Granted, he fought a LOT more credible opposition in the time span, but it would have been nice to see him tested against Champions like Benvenuti while they were still in their prime. And like Hopkins and Hagler, two of his signature wins came from beating ATG Welterweights. Of the guys I rated in the top 7, his style is the most ordinary. I think he could of beat Ketchel, but that's about it.

Also, Langford beat Ketchel and Flowers, so don't tell me I can't rate him as a MW.

You say his style is ordinary, I don't know why people think this. Monzon was very hard to figure out, his hands rather low, his amazing counter punching abilty, his cool calm and collective attitude, his brillant stamina and his ******* right cross aswell as his brillant chin. He was very hard to figure out and deal with. and there wasn't much ordinary about him, he may not look breathtaking on footage, but belive me he was.

I don't think you can compare Monzon with Calzaghe, Monzon was willing to travel much more than Calzaghe, and never just based himself in his homeland for 90% of his career. Monzon won his Middlweight Title in Benvanuti's hometown for crying out loud, that says enough.

You say Monzon never fought many prime fighters, maybe at times but he did fight his fair share. The first time he met Rodrigo Valdez, Valdez hand't been beat in 6 years, and was considered one of the hardest punchers in boxing. In those 6 years he held wins over Bennie Briscoe and then unbeaten Vinnie Curto. He had also made 4 defences of his WBC Title, you won get much more prime than that.

I dout think you can really dout Monzon's greatness at Middlweight, but yet people do. He is without dout a top 3 Middlweight of all time

I just feel Monzon reign and dominace at Middlweight should make him at least top 3. He made 14 defences of the Title, held onto the Title for 7 Years, avoided no one, beat 3 Hall of famers and 4 World Champions, and beat top contenders aswell. And retired Champion. You cant ask for any more that that in view.

And I know you are intitled to your own thoughts, but you say I could only see him beating Ketchel. I've always thought he would of beat Marvin Hagler, aswell as Ray Robinson and Bernard Hopkins at Middlweight, on his best day.

[Obama]

His style isn't ordinary compared to a normal fighter. Compared to the other greats I listed however, quite ordinary. He'd have a harder time trying to figure them out then vice versa. His performance against a way past it Benvenuti was not impressive. Benvenuti was beating his ass but couldn't hurt him. Given his incredible size, it was pretty easy for him to beat up Welterweights who had seen better days. You mentioned Rodrigo Valdez, and I consider it his best win. He didn't avoid anyone, but he just wasn't around when the competition was as hard as it could be. Once again, all the risks came at the end of his career...completely protected up until then, and somehow managed to lose 3 times. Can't be over looked.

[TheGreatA]

His style isn't ordinary compared to a normal fighter. Compared to the other greats I listed however, quite ordinary. He'd have a harder time trying to figure them out then vice versa. His performance against a way past it Benvenuti was not impressive. Benvenuti was beating his ass but couldn't hurt him. Given his incredible size, it was pretty easy for him to beat up Welterweights who had seen better days. You mentioned Rodrigo Valdez, and I consider it his best win. He didn't avoid anyone, but he just wasn't around when the competition was as hard as it could be. Once again, all the risks came at the end of his career...completely protected up until then, and somehow managed to lose 3 times. Can't be over looked.

Monzon's three early losses are meaningless to be honest as is almost all of his early career. He was brought up the way that most Argentinian fighters are brought up, having numerous fights against local competition until stepping up in class.

He did fight world class competition in nearly every fight of his from 1970 to 1977.

[Obama]

Monzon's three early losses are meaningless to be honest as is almost all of his early career. He was brought up the way that most Argentinian fighters are brought up, having numerous fights against local competition until stepping up in class.

He did fight world class competition in nearly every fight of his from 1970 to 1977.

Should we ignore all 9 of his draws too then?

[TheGreatA]

Should we ignore all 9 of his draws too then?

No we shouldn't especially the draw with Briscoe which was likely a hometown decision. He did avenge most of his draws though.

The rematch with Griffith could have gone the other way as well but then again Monzon had all kinds of excuses for that performance yet he used none. His troubles outside the ring and with his weight are legendary.

[TheGreatA]

I also don't know about rating Langford at middleweight since he rarely fought at the weight limit. He did beat Flowers and went 6 rounds with Ketchel but he was above 160 lbs for those fights from what I know.