why isnt MONZON that leagiondary?

[billionaire]

I rate Monzon #7 MW:

Harry Greb
Sugar Ray Robinson
Sam Langford
Marvin Hagler
Bernard Hopkins
Stanley Ketchel
Carlos Monzon

Monzon kinda pulled a Calzaghe with his career. Didn't really fight anyone worth a damn till the tail end. Granted, he fought a LOT more credible opposition in the time span, but it would have been nice to see him tested against Champions like Benvenuti while they were still in their prime. And like Hopkins and Hagler, two of his signature wins came from beating ATG Welterweights. Of the guys I rated in the top 7, his style is the most ordinary. I think he could of beat Ketchel, but that's about it.

Also, Langford beat Ketchel and Flowers, so don't tell me I can't rate him as a MW.

lol monzon beats hagler easy.......hagler got outboxed by john mugabi of all people......

[Obama]

lol monzon beats hagler easy.......hagler got outboxed by john mugabi of all people......

No one goes 15 rounds with Hagler easily.

[TheGreatA]

lol monzon beats hagler easy.......hagler got outboxed by john mugabi of all people......

What fight were you watching? Hagler landed on Mugabi at will.

[Southpaw16BF]

His style isn't ordinary compared to a normal fighter. Compared to the other greats I listed however, quite ordinary

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I just don't think it a ordinary style full stop compared to any type of a fighter. Monzon was so hard to figure out, he may not have look breattaking on footage, but don't be fooled by this.

His performance against a way past it Benvenuti was not impressive. Benvenuti was beating his ass but couldn't hurt him.

What fight were you watching, Benvennuti, was not beating his ass, before Monzon knocked him out, Nino may have been having his moments, but I always felt Monzon was in control of the fight, and was working a brillant tactical gameplan, in Benvanuti's home country of Italy.

Given his incredible size, it was pretty easy for him to beat up Welterweights who had seen better days.

Hmmmm.....Napoles had seen better days? What, Napoles hand't been beat in 4 years, and in those years had made 7 defences of his Welterweight crown. There may have been a huge strength and height factor, but how you can say Napoles was past his best is beyond me.

You mentioned Rodrigo Valdez, and I consider it his best win. He didn't avoid anyone, but he just wasn't around when the competition was as hard as it could be. Once again, all the risks came at the end of his career...completely protected up until then,

It may have not been the best resume of wins ever, but it was a pretty good resume. It included beating 3 Hall Of Famers in Emile Griffith, Jose Napoles and Nino Benvenuti. He beat some of Europes best fighters around in Tom Bogs and Jean Claude Bouttier.
And outstading contender Bennie Bruscoe, aswell as one of the hardest punchers and WBC Champion Rodrigo Valdez. Looks pretty good to me. How is this protection?

and somehow managed to lose 3 times. Can't be over looked

Wow you are really being picky pointing out 3 losses, and this is a pretty good stat actually 3 losses out of 100 fights, and all losses were revenged, did you know this. And you bring up his 9 draws, well actually it's a very well known fact that draws were a common thing in Argentina, Nicolino Locche had 14.

[glidesmack]

no one cares about carlos monzon he was just a freak, light heavy upper body on welterweight legs.

[Southpaw16BF]

no one cares about carlos monzon he was just a freak, light heavy upper body on welterweight legs.

Who are you to say no one cares about Carlos Monzon, do you speak for everyone on behalf of this board?

A freak he was, but this freak ruled the Middlweight division in the 1970's, made 14 Title defences, held the Title for 7 years, and reitred champion, he was more than just a freak.

Not bad for a guy with welterweight legs don't ya think..........

[RightCross94]

i hate how people automatically disrespect a guy just because he is big for a division

monzon was a tall rangy guy, so what

[glidesmack]

To me he's just a good light heavyweight who snuck his way into the middleweight division. You don't get legendary status doing that.

[Obama]

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I just don't think it a ordinary style full stop compared to any type of a fighter. Monzon was so hard to figure out, he may not have look breattaking on footage, but don't be fooled by this.



What fight were you watching, Benvennuti, was not beating his ass, before Monzon knocked him out, Nino may have been having his moments, but I always felt Monzon was in control of the fight, and was working a brillant tactical gameplan, in Benvanuti's home country of Italy.


Hmmmm.....Napoles had seen better days? What, Napoles hand't been beat in 4 years, and in those years had made 7 defences of his Welterweight crown. There may have been a huge strength and height factor, but how you can say Napoles was past his best is beyond me.



It may have not been the best resume of wins ever, but it was a pretty good resume. It included beating 3 Hall Of Famers in Emile Griffith, Jose Napoles and Nino Benvenuti. He beat some of Europes best fighters around in Tom Bogs and Jean Claude Bouttier.
And outstading contender Bennie Bruscoe, aswell as one of the hardest punchers and WBC Champion Rodrigo Valdez. Looks pretty good to me. How is this protection?



Wow you are really being picky pointing out 3 losses, and this is a pretty good stat actually 3 losses out of 100 fights, and all losses were revenged, did you know this. And you bring up his 9 draws, well actually it's a very well known fact that draws were a common thing in Argentina, Nicolino Locche had 14.

I can see you're really in love with this guy...

No point in arguing how "difficult" you feel his fighting style was. You're not going to see any light there.

No point in looking at any of his in ring performances...seems like even when the guy made mistakes it was executed beautifully to you.

And hell yes Napoles had seen better days. His best weight division is WELTERWEIGHT, not MIDDLEWEIGHT. It's a great win but its not a GREAT win. Same level as Hopkins beating Trinidad. Got nuthin to do with prime status.

The end of career resume is excellent, but that's what it is, and END of career resume. He fought 100 fights, but didn't start fighting anyone worth a damn until his last 16. His first 84 fights are protection. What other ATGs can you name who did something that absurd? If any, certainly not many.

Yes I know he avenged all his losses. And the only thing common about having a lot of draws against low level opposition is this:

1) The fighter wasn't as great as you want to believe he is

or

2) He didn't show up to fight for those draws, took them on short notice, didn't train, some valid reason to suggest he was only 50% at best. But for the real deal guy to show up and draw, inexcusable. I don't particularly know Monzon's circumstances, but the great fighters I rate at the very top of the p4p list don't have this many draws against weak opposition when they faced nothing but weak opposition for that entire portion of their career.


In conclusion, you seem to forget I got Monzon rated #7 MW, perhaps the second most prestigious division in the history of boxing... It's not like I'm calling the man a bum.

[Southpaw16BF]

No point in arguing how "difficult" you feel his fighting style was. You're not going to see any light there.
No point in looking at any of his in ring performances...seems like even when the guy made mistakes it was executed beautifully to you.

I feel you don't understand boxing, yes I have noticed mistakes from Monzon, but every fighter has made mistakes in his career.

And hell yes Napoles had seen better days. His best weight division is WELTERWEIGHT, not MIDDLEWEIGHT. It's a great win but its not a GREAT win. Same level as Hopkins beating Trinidad. Got nuthin to do with prime status.

Actually if you would read my post, who would of seen that I said Monzon had size and strength on Napoles, but to say Napoles was a shot fighter is a bogus comment. Like I stated previously to you, Napoles hadn't been beat in 4 years from 70 to 74, and had made 6 defences of his Title.

Well actually your wrong about Trinidad Hopkins, as funny enough I was just reading about this fight and some predictions before hand, and virtually everyyone was picking Trinidad. And you do realize Trinidad was coming off a win over William Joppy, and most were saying it was the best he has ever looked. Hopkins beat Trinidad due to him just being the overall better fighter.

You can't just put Hopkins beating Trinidad was all down to size. And at times Smaller men coming up from weight have caused champions alot of trouble and beat them. Hell Orginal Joe Walcott beat a good few big men and was avoided by most of the best one's, same goes for Sam Langford.

Micky Walker drew with future Heavyweight Champion Jack Sharkley and I could go on, I feel Monzon may need a little bit more credit for this win, fighters coming up in weight can be very dangerous.

The end of career resume is excellent, but that's what it is, and END of career resume. He fought 100 fights, but didn't start fighting anyone worth a damn until his last 16. His first 84 fights are protection. What other ATGs can you name who did something that absurd? If any, certainly not many.

Ever heard of learning your trade? Whats the big rush, to get to world titles? Your judging to much on todays fighters record at getting World Title shots which is usualy under 30. Back in Monzon's era and era's before, learning your trade and fighting often was common. And thats why Monzon probaly kept his Title and never lost it as he had exprience and had learnt his trade the proper way.

He also had some wins in Argentina, against fighters like Jorge Jose Fernandez (109-6-1) and Emilio Ale Ali good exprienced fighters who you will learn alot from.

And this all helped Monzon learn his craft and it helped him as a fighter in the future, as it proved with a 7 year Title reign and 14 defences of his crown.

And Monzon isn't on his own here, Marcel Cerdan had had 107 fights before coming to the USA to defeat Laverne Roach, and he defeated Tony Zale on his 111th bout. So like I said back down the era line, most champions had had alot more fights than todays current crop.

But you making out like its a bad thing, it's not in truth.

Yes I know he avenged all his losses. And the only thing common about having a lot of draws against low level opposition is this:

1) The fighter wasn't as great as you want to believe he is

or

2) He didn't show up to fight for those draws, took them on short notice, didn't train, some valid reason to suggest he was only 50% at best. But for the real deal guy to show up and draw, inexcusable. I don't particularly know Monzon's circumstances, but the great fighters I rate at the very top of the p4p list don't have this many draws against weak opposition when they faced nothing but weak opposition for that entire portion of their career.

Well Henry Armstrong musten be as great as I thought he was with 10 draws, same goes for Tony Canzoneri 10 draws, Nicolino Locche 14 draws, Jack Demspey 11 draws and many more. As you can see Monzon is not on his own in the draws deparment. But do you discredit these great fighters for draws? Draws can be down to a number of things, learning your craft, bad decisions, etc you get my drift.

You motto on things is a really pour mindset to have.

In conclusion, you seem to forget I got Monzon rated #7 MW, perhaps the second most prestigious division in the history of boxing... It's not like I'm calling the man a bum.

I'am am not biased to towards fighters, and I still feel Monzon is to low. And I disagree with most things you say, as none make sense or none are justified.