Ali was a ****

[Dr.Depravity]

I remember talking to my dad about it. Of course he was watching it all unfold live back in the day. He thought Ali was out of line and was actually cruel for what he tried to do to Joe.

[Mugwump]

Ali's treatment of women was arguably even worse than the terrible hurt he inflicted on Frazier.

Like most I totally respect Ali's boxing skills, guts, determination etc. but I'm uncomfortable with the totalist veneration aimed at him.

George Orwell once said "Saints should be judged guility until proven innocent". In this case I agree with him.

Ali has reaped the adulation of the masses through a mythical media representation. It's time the media redressed the balance. For everyone's sake - including Ali's.

[Abstraction]

Huge difference between apologizing to someone's face and taking out an ad in the Times or to someone's kid and having them tell them. And the things Ali said weren't 'mind games'....i truly believe he used his words in a way to help further his cause. He (along with the NOI) truly believed Joe was working for the enemy.

And bias? Look at all the documentaries on Ali....they are extremely bias....why aren't you complaining about them?

Because there is not a thread about them?

Ali was Human, and he played mind games with nearly every boxer he faced. Funny it takes a bias documentary for you to come out of your hole and criticize him now.

He admitted he is wrong, and wants to apologize, who, on earth, are YOU, to say otherwise?

It's time to Frazier to let go, do the right thing, and accept it.

[Mugwump]

It's time to Frazier to let go, do the right thing, and accept it.

It's difficult for Frazier to let go because many people (unaware of the truth) still BELIEVE what Ali said about him (he wielded great influence).

Would YOU be able to "let go" if every week you bumped into someone who threw at you one of the worst insults imaginable?

I thought not.

[res]

Ali's treatment of women was arguably even worse than the terrible hurt he inflicted on Frazier.

Like most I totally respect Ali's boxing skills, guts, determination etc. but I'm uncomfortable with the totalist veneration aimed at him.

Very true.

I've been saying it for a while that Ali meant what he said to Joe and many people just respond that it was all Promotion. I say anybody that believes that it was all promotion and laughed with Ali, is a racist themselves.

I don't know that, or how the portion in bold would be true. I don't think it makes Ali any better even if he was just doing it for promotion anyway. As A Black American he had no misconceptions about the power of the kind of language he was using against Joe, it is arguably even worse if he was just doing it for money and fame.

[elfag]

I thought the documentary was pretty good and it also was fair. They showed the bad side of ali but also the bad side of fraizer as well with all his commments about Ali's parkisons, so it wasnt biased, I thought it was balanced.

Look I like Ali and I consider him the greatest heavy ever but he did cheat on his wives and he did do some horrible things to fraizer. Those are just the facts, Ali was an ******* at times, he was selfish doing whats best for him regardless of the people he hurt.

People get older and they change, Ali put that behind him now and I think regardless if he had gotten parkisons or not he still wouldnt have been like that now in his 60s.

But I dont think a documentary should try to sugarcoat the past, it should strive for accuracy.

[1SILVA]

In the history of boxing, fighters have always used words to psyche their opponents out. Benny Paret called Emile Griffith a ******. Roberto Duran constantly barraged Juanita Leonard with sexual innuendos and foul language, causing immense anger from her husband Ray. Floyd mayweather called Diego Corrales a wife-beater and even came to the ring in their fight to a rap song mocking Diego's beating of his pregnant girlfriend. Mike Tyson bragged that he was going to eat Lennox Lewis and his children. Bernard Hopkins desecrated the Puerto Rican flag in Puerto Rico in front of Felix trinidad and hundreds of fans. Psychological warfare has always been a part of boxing. Is it right? Maybe morally no, but isn't all fair in love and war?

Muhammad said some very cruel and divisive things about frazier, but Joe was not the first he did this with. He was very cruel to Floyd Patterson and Ernie Terrell, even to the point of holding them up and inflicting unnecessary physical damage to each fighter. It takes a certain amount of cruelty to be a great fighter in the first place. Ali definitely was out of line, but he was no different than any other pugilist looking to gain any edge they could to win a fight. No one in the history of sports could match Ali's banter. He used that to very huge and effective advantage.

[elfag]

That's one of the most ridiculous" documentary's" ever made.

Seriously Bias.

Ali apologised to Frazier, but Frazier has still remained angry and bitter all these years later.

Need to understand Ali played mind games with nearly all his opponents.

How is it biased, it did cover Ali's apology and it did cover Frazier's current bitterness. Just cause you apologize doesnt mean the stuff never happened. It covered everything the stuff in the 70s and the current state which you address now. I think it was balanced.

[Mugwump]

The difference is - Ali's insults were broadcast to the world. Such was his popularity. Pretty much everybody hung on his every word because he had such charisma and lyrical wit.

Ali's apology was heard/read by very few. Ali, whilst still a media saint, does not command the audience he once did.

Granted, this is not Ali's fault but the fact remains that:

People who heard and believed Ali's insults > People who heard his apology.

Which leaves a mountain of people Joe Frazier is forced continuously to defend himself before.

[mickey malone]

In the history of boxing, fighters have always used words to psyche their opponents out. Benny Paret called Emile Griffith a ******. Roberto Duran constantly barraged Juanita Leonard with sexual innuendos and foul language, causing immense anger from her husband Ray. Floyd mayweather called Diego Corrales a wife-beater and even came to the ring in their fight to a rap song mocking Diego's beating of his pregnant girlfriend. Mike Tyson bragged that he was going to eat Lennox Lewis and his children. Bernard Hopkins desecrated the Puerto Rican flag in Puerto Rico in front of Felix trinidad and hundreds of fans. Psychological warfare has always been a part of boxing. Is it right? Maybe morally no, but isn't all fair in love and war?

Muhammad said some very cruel and divisive things about frazier, but Joe was not the first he did this with. He was very cruel to Floyd Patterson and Ernie Terrell, even to the point of holding them up and inflicting unnecessary physical damage to each fighter. It takes a certain amount of cruelty to be a great fighter in the first place. Ali definitely was out of line, but he was no different than any other pugilist looking to gain any edge they could to win a fight. No one in the history of sports could match Ali's banter. He used that to very huge and effective advantage.

Yeah, you're spot on, and Leonard also used similar tactics before his fight with Hagler.. It's been going on throughout the history of boxing.. John L Sullivan was one of the worst offenders.. I'm affraid it's human nature in an ever competetive world.. Ali was just particularly good at it, but Frazier doesn't have Parkinsons, so there's the answer for everyone... The Karma wins every time!