Ali was a ****

[Hawkins]

Ali didn't call Frazier a "Tom" until the pre-fight talk for their 1971 fight. Frazier always called Ali Cassius Clay.

He just didn't buy into it as Terrell and Patterson didn't. They were used to calling him Clay and had too much pride to start calling him Ali when Ali demanded it on live TV.

Afterwards Frazier started using the name Cassius Clay, overtly so, to anger Ali even more.

Well I love Ali, but Frazier is justified in his anger. Ali knew what he was doing. When he was exiled he would talk trash but not in such a personal manner, then after he got what he wanted thats when the real personal attacks started.

And yes, you are right Joe did refer to him as Clay the entire time...however he did it with some venom after Ali ramped up his own attacks. Personally, I think most of that garbage was perpetuated by the NOI.

[ßringer]

[QUOTE=JAB5239;5058669]

Not sure I've heard that sory before. Could you give me some details my friend?

It was briefly touched upon in the "Thrilla in Manila" documentary. Ali briefly discusses it on film.

From what I understand, he spoke at a Klan rally about seperation of the races. And how blacks and whites should not mingle, or marry with one another.

[BattlingNelson]

One's got to understand Ali's situation. There were cameras and newspapermen sorrounding him 24/7. He was under immense pressure to always do something funny or say something quoteable. So he was on some kind of automatic-pilot in insulting Joe. And let's face it. Ali loved the attention from the media.

The above is no excuse I'm trying to give on behalf of Ali as I also think he took the role too far.

[ßringer]

Because there is not a thread about them?

Ali was Human, and he played mind games with nearly every boxer he faced. Funny it takes a bias documentary for you to come out of your hole and criticize him now.

He admitted he is wrong, and wants to apologize, who, on earth, are YOU, to say otherwise?

It's time to Frazier to let go, do the right thing, and accept it.

First off, if you want a documentary that casts Ali in a beautiful, saint-like light, you can try your hand at every documentary that Ali is in. "Thrilla in Manila" is the other side of the story.

The side most people never got to hear, or even cared to hear.

Joe Frazier's side.

Secondly, it wasn't mind games. Ali genuinely hated Frazier, and you could see it in his body language and hear it when he spoke of him.

"Promotion" didn't really even exist back when Ali did what he did to Frazier. Boxing was as popular during the "golden era" as it ever was. So there was no need for Ali to "sell" anything. Everybody already wanted to see the fight anyway, and Ali was guaranteed his 2.5 Million, as Joe was his.

"Promotion" is a lame excuse that Ali's fans drag up to try to lessen the blow of Ali's malice.

As for Ali's "apology". He apologized to Joe's son, Marvis. He never once came to the man himself, looked Joe in the eyes, and said he was sorry. He always apologized through a third party.

Look, I love Frazier, but I love Ali too.

Muhammad has done multiple things outside of the ring of which I genuinely admire : Like his countless efforts in promotion of world peace, his unending work with children and charities, being a spokesman for his religion, a U.N. ambassador, etc....

But I also see the bad things he's done as well. I don't let the media taint my view of who he was.

I see Ali for who he is, not who I want him to be, or who people told me he was.

I still love him, but I'm not about to defend him for any of the things he did to Joe or Joe's family. I'll defend him on other things for as long as I have breath. But this one? No.

[Benny Leonard]

So this is the Man Ali/Clay was named after:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassius...0%E2%80%931903)


http://www.nndb.com/people/817/000107496/

http://www.lmunet.edu/museum/collect...biography.html

[MarkScott]

I'm a big Ali fan but I have to say he was in the wrong with the way he acted with Frazier.

http://www.amazon.com/Joe-Gans-Biogr...088293-3598261

[Abstraction]

Nobody is saying Ali should be shown in a good light, i prefer to say things how it is.

End of the day, what's done is done, and Ali apologized, and Frazier's own family say it themselves Joe needs to let it go.

[ßringer]

Nobody is saying Ali should be shown in a good light, i prefer to say things how it is.

End of the day, what's done is done, and Ali apologized, and Frazier's own family say it themselves Joe needs to let it go.

As I said once before, in a different thread : I think Joe would have a much easier time letting it go if it did not effect his family so much.

At the end of the day, Joe is a man. And he would likely learn to swallow Ali's harsh words.

But it was Joe's family that suffered the most from it (his kids being singled out and ridiculed/beaten up because people believed Frazier was an "Uncle Tom", and the death threats).

Most men have that line that you don't cross when it comes to their family. And while it was completely indirectly on Ali's part, he crossed that line.

As for Frazier letting it go : That's Joe's choice. Joe is a grown assed man, he can do whatever he wants to do. If he wants to let it go, he can. If he wants to hold onto it and be bitter, he can do that too.

But it's all too easy for you, I, and anybody else to sit here and say what Joe "should" be doing. Afterall, you and I never had to walk a mile in his shoes.

[Russian Express]

I almost slipped into a coma reading this garbage. Some of you morons have to be spoonfed by a completely biased and sensationalising documentary to make up your own opinions of the man.

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE=The_Bringer;5061322]

It was briefly touched upon in the "Thrilla in Manila" documentary. Ali briefly discusses it on film.

From what I understand, he spoke at a Klan rally about seperation of the races. And how blacks and whites should not mingle, or marry with one another.

I had heard he preached seperation of the races for a short time, but never knew he did it at a klan rally. I'l have to check out that documentary. Thanks Bringer!