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The fight that should have happened but never did...

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Thread Stealer View Post
    Pryor was an A fighter with a B resume.

    I rank him pretty highly in terms of head-to-head matchups at 140, but resume/achievement wise, he's not too impressive compared to the guys he's compared with.

    And it's not all the "ducking" of other fighters. His own personal and managerial problems played quite a role in him not achieving what he should've.
    I definitely agree about his resume.

    Pryor can probably beat just about anyone at 140 lbs but I don't see him having much success above that weight as a welter. He could take a punch as well as anybody but he took a lot of them too.

    I doubt he would walk through Hearns' right hand and with his (lack of) defense he wouldn't be able to avoid it either.

    What every boy should be taught before he first laces on a pair of boxing gloves is that a championship isn't an automatic pass to love and respect. They'll gird you with a championship belt, but if a boxer is to gain a greater esteem, he must earn it outside the ring. That has been a lesson harshly learned by Aaron Pryor, the WBA junior welterweight champion.

    That he is the most exciting fighter in the world is without question. He hammers away at opponents in frenetic three-minute bursts until nothing upright remains to be hammered. As an amateur, the Hawk, as the 27-year-old Pryor is called, won all but 16 of 220 fights. Fifty of those never got past the first round. As a pro he is 31-0, with 29 knockouts, the last 23 in succession.

    Pryor's life-style outside the ring is, unfortunately, as confusing and destructive as his tactics within it. Pryor hungers for love and respect, but he trusts no one, so he goes unnourished. And in his zigzagging wake is the debris of people he easily embraced, and just as easily abandoned. His first wife divorced him, his second shot him. He recently lost a paternity suit and gained a son. He changes lawyers and promoters the way Liberace changes clothes. In his entourage seniority can be gained in a few weeks, and lost in a wink. He recently tried to fire his manager, Buddy LaRosa, for the fourth—or maybe it was the 40th—time.
    "I had nothing but good dealings with Aaron," says Elkus. "Unfortunately, he's his own worst enemy. He isn't a bad kid, and he's a kid even though he's 27. I don't think Cincinnatians look at him as a professional athlete. I think they look at him as a kid from the ****** who had the gall to say, 'I'm going to turn down a $500,000 offer to fight Ray Leonard.' Now they like to hear that Aaron had a paternity suit, that his attorney sued him, that he fired his business manager, that he doesn't want Buddy LaRosa in his corner anymore. But all that doesn't mean anything. The guy can fight. Aaron has his minuses, but he has a lot of pluses you never hear about."
    By the time they worked out a new agreement, the chance to fight Duran—and the $750,000 payday—was gone. The new contract covered six years; LaRosa's share was cut to one-third and he no longer had any ancillary rights. Expenses were to come off the top.

    "The ink wasn't even dry on the damn contract," says LaRosa, "when I found out Aaron had signed a one-year promotional contract with Don King, who was going to give him a $100,000 bonus. Then King sent me the contract to sign. I told Aaron it was a mistake, but if that was what he wanted, then I'd sign.

    "Aaron said, 'But King is going to get me a Duran fight, a Mamby fight, because he's got Duran and Mamby.'

    " 'Aaron,' I said, 'we had a Duran fight, but you didn't want it.' "
    http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...6084/index.htm

    This article is a very good read for everybody. It exposes a lot of myths about Pryor that are often heard today.
    Last edited by TheGreatA; 02-19-2009, 06:16 PM.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by poet682006 View Post
      Henry Tillman beat Mike Tyson TWICE in the amatuers and it didn't mean squat when they fought as pros. Antonio Cervantes was even more washed up than Arguello was. Sang Hyu Kim and Dujan Johnson: Please remind me, what ATG list are they on? Oh wait, they're two of the Three Stooges aren't they? Try again please.

      Poet
      And Forrest beat Mosley in the amateurs and still beat him in the Pros. You can't necessarily say that Pryor doesn't belong in the class of Hearns, when not only did he prove it in the pros (unlike Tilman), but he showed it was possible that he could beat Hearns.

      Dujan Johnson and San Hyu Kim were top 140 pounders at the time. Cervantes might have been past his prime, but he was still a champ who had made 6 title defenses previously. Whether you think the division was weak or not, Pryor still dominated it and that's respectable imo.

      Pryor doesn't have an amazing resume nor was he ducked by Leonard, but I think he is certainly one of the best fighters from the 80s.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by warp1432 View Post
        And Forrest beat Mosley in the amateurs and still beat him in the Pros. You can't necessarily say that Pryor doesn't belong in the class of Hearns, when not only did he prove it in the pros (unlike Tilman), but he showed it was possible that he could beat Hearns.
        The point is he DIDN'T show it in the pros beating NO one in Tommy Hearns' class. Again, saying he showed he could beat Hearns is the SAME as saying Henry Tillman showed he could beat Tyson.

        Originally posted by warp1432 View Post
        Dujan Johnson and San Hyu Kim were top 140 pounders at the time.
        That and $4 will get you a latte at Starbucks. Obviously a weak division if THAT'S the best it could offer.

        Originally posted by warp1432 View Post
        Cervantes might have been past his prime, but he was still a champ who had made 6 title defenses previously. Whether you think the division was weak or not, Pryor still dominated it and that's respectable imo.
        Antonio Cervantes had 13 fights between losing to Benitez and Pryor. He picked up a vacant alphabet crown without having to fight an established champion to get it. Of his 13 opponents only Saul Mamby was a recognizable fighter and even he had 9 losses already on his record. All the rest of his opponents where no-names that he fought in either Venezuala or southeast Asia. This is hardly the record of a fighter that could still be considered a formidable opponent.

        Poet

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        • #24
          Since it's been brought up, here's Arguello's record in the 2 years preceding the Pryor fight.

          1982-07-31 Kevin Rooney
          1982-05-22 Andrew Ganigan
          1982-02-13 James Busceme
          1981-11-21 Roberto Elizondo
          1981-10-03 Ray Mancini
          1981-06-20 Jim Watt
          1981-02-07 Robert Vasquez
          1980-11-14 Jose Luis Ramirez
          1980-08-09 Cornelius Boza Edwards
          1980-04-27 Rolando Navarrete
          1980-03-31 Gerald Hayes
          1980-01-20 Ruben Castillo

          How many world class fighters did Arguello beat during this period? The answer is: NONE! (No, Boom Boom Mancini was NOT a world class fighter: He was a world class fraud who got exposed when faced with real opponents)
          Kevin Rooney? Real good trainer but NOT even a near-great fighter, sorry.

          Poet

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by poet682006 View Post
            Since it's been brought up, here's Arguello's record in the 2 years preceding the Pryor fight.

            1982-07-31 Kevin Rooney
            1982-05-22 Andrew Ganigan
            1982-02-13 James Busceme
            1981-11-21 Roberto Elizondo
            1981-10-03 Ray Mancini
            1981-06-20 Jim Watt
            1981-02-07 Robert Vasquez
            1980-11-14 Jose Luis Ramirez
            1980-08-09 Cornelius Boza Edwards
            1980-04-27 Rolando Navarrete
            1980-03-31 Gerald Hayes
            1980-01-20 Ruben Castillo

            How many world class fighters did Arguello beat during this period? The answer is: NONE! (No, Boom Boom Mancini was NOT a world class fighter: He was a world class fraud who got exposed when faced with real opponents)
            Kevin Rooney? Real good trainer but NOT even a near-great fighter, sorry.

            Poet
            Ruben Castillo was undefeated. Ramirez stuck around for the next two years or so and KOd Edwin Rosario. Also Boom Boom Mancini was undefeated so Arguello deserves credit for taking his 0. Boom Boom wasn't a terrible fighter either.

            Also
            The point is he DIDN'T show it in the pros beating NO one in Tommy Hearns' class. Again, saying he showed he could beat Hearns is the SAME as saying Henry Tillman showed he could beat Tyson.
            Just because he didn't have as strong as a resume as Tommy, I'd still say he's still one of the best resumes, he's one of the best fighters from the 80s.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by warp1432 View Post
              Ruben Castillo was undefeated. Ramirez stuck around for the next two years or so and KOd Edwin Rosario. Also Boom Boom Mancini was undefeated so Arguello deserves credit for taking his 0..
              Perceptions of a fighter's worth at a given moment is often inaccurate. It's only when you can look back at a fighters career can you determine how a fighter actually was. Ruben Castillo may have been undefeated at the time we can now look back and tell he wasn't all that and a bag of chips. There have been plenty of fighters who had good records to start who were quickly exposed when forced to fight world class opponents. Remember Peter McNeely was undefeated going into his fight with Tyson. How much credit does Tyson deserve for taking McNeely's 0?



              Originally posted by warp1432 View Post
              Boom Boom wasn't a terrible fighter either.
              Not terrible, but not a world class fighter either. See the Arturo Gatti story: Popular crowd pleasure, dominates second tier opposition, then gets crushed every time he stepped in the ring with a world class fighter.

              Poet

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by poet682006 View Post
                Since it's been brought up, here's Arguello's record in the 2 years preceding the Pryor fight.

                1982-07-31 Kevin Rooney
                1982-05-22 Andrew Ganigan
                1982-02-13 James Busceme
                1981-11-21 Roberto Elizondo
                1981-10-03 Ray Mancini
                1981-06-20 Jim Watt
                1981-02-07 Robert Vasquez
                1980-11-14 Jose Luis Ramirez
                1980-08-09 Cornelius Boza Edwards
                1980-04-27 Rolando Navarrete
                1980-03-31 Gerald Hayes
                1980-01-20 Ruben Castillo

                How many world class fighters did Arguello beat during this period? The answer is: NONE! (No, Boom Boom Mancini was NOT a world class fighter: He was a world class fraud who got exposed when faced with real opponents)
                Kevin Rooney? Real good trainer but NOT even a near-great fighter, sorry.

                Poet
                WOW, you have alot to say. Ever boxed yourself???????? I highly dout it, your just a typical armchair supporter, who just call's fighters.

                Maybe you should of or have tryed it to realize just how hard the game is, instead of just sitting on ya fat ass and typin crap, at least fighters have the balls to get in and have ago.

                You don't have the right to call any boxer!

                Comment


                • #28
                  To many posters have to much to say about fighters!

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by clay123 View Post
                    WOW, you have alot to say. Ever boxed yourself???????? I highly dout it, your just a typical armchair supporter, who just call's fighters.

                    Maybe you should of or have tryed it to realize just how hard the game is, instead of just sitting on ya fat ass and typin crap, at least fighters have the balls to get in and have ago.

                    You don't have the right to call any boxer!
                    Well, Gee, by THAT standard no one has any right to criticise a quarterback for throwing an interception. No one has any right to criticise the 30 million dollar a year steroid user for striking out with the game on the line. Come to think of it, no one has a right to criticise some Senator for taking bribes, since, after all, those people haven't held a public office.

                    You need to seriously get real, drink a tall glass of shut-the-****-up, and resist the urge to post until such time as the Good Lord in his mercy grants you some intelligence.

                    Poet

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by poet682006 View Post
                      Well, Gee, by THAT standard no one has any right to criticise a quarterback for throwing an interception. No one has any right to criticise the 30 million dollar a year steroid user for striking out with the game on the line. Come to think of it, no one has a right to criticise some Senator for taking bribes, since, after all, those people haven't held a public office.

                      You need to seriously get real, drink a tall glass of shut-the-****-up, and resist the urge to post until such time as the Good Lord in his mercy grants you some intelligence.

                      Poet
                      By the way have you boxed?

                      Comment

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