PRIME Ali Beats PRIME Tyson Easy?

[them_apples]

The fact that they don't fight the same is important. Frazier applied pressure but it was brawling pressure that included persistent attacks to the body. Tyson usually tries to land one or two shots, with speed (not by brawling) and usually to the head. That isn't a good approach to fighting Ali.

So i don't think this fight would be as hard for Ali as Frazier, but it still won't be a cake walk.

good point

[MANGLER]

He'da beat him, but not exactly easily.

[KJB]

That would depend on your definition of easy. He does, however, beat him convincingly 10 times out of 10.
Ali takes Tyson late into a tough fight, and drowns him in the deep waters. Every time.

[sleazyfellow]

so, showing a fighter who cried when tyson hit him in the body do ok for 1 round and 20 seconds of larry holmes dancing is showing muhammed could win? Buster Douglas had a better formula for beating tyson than either of those guys, he kept mike turning and kept pecking away at him with lefts and rights.

I say ali wins this by ud or late ko.

[StarshipTrooper]

I know it won't cut it, I have Ali winning. My point was he isn't going to dance around and make a fool of Tyson ether without taking something in return like this video makes it out to be. Both Holmes and Biggs looked good dancing untill they got hit, so whats this video proving?

Btw, Tyson was a sharp puncher, he put Holmes to sleep, a guy that withstood shavers punches to.

But, Ali's durability is to great, even if he did hit the canvas I'd see him winning.

He isn't using good examples to make his case for whatever reason. Biggs was only interested in trying (unsuccessfully) to survive after the first solid punch Tyson landed and Larry was aged to the point where he could only pop that jab for as few seconds as opposed to all fight long as he did in his prime.

A point about the Holmes fight. Larry's reflexes were gone by that point and Mike was able to land flush a lot more frequently than Shaver's was against a prime Holmes: A big difference in the outcome of the two fights as Shavers couldn't follow up his knockdown with anything solid while Tyson was right there with more clean shots. Scary thing is, Holmes wasn't even out after the third knockdown: They wouldn't let him get up! He's trying to rise and his cornermen where holding him down so the ring doc could check him and Larry was saying "Richie get me off the damn canvas". If the fight hadn't been waved off as he's falling for the third time I think Larry would have got up for more.

Poet

[them_apples]

He isn't using good examples to make his case for whatever reason. Biggs was only interested in trying (unsuccessfully) to survive after the first solid punch Tyson landed and Larry was aged to the point where he could only pop that jab for as few seconds as opposed to all fight long as he did in his prime.

A point about the Holmes fight. Larry's reflexes were gone by that point and Mike was able to land flush a lot more frequently than Shaver's was against a prime Holmes: A big difference in the outcome of the two fights as Shavers couldn't follow up his knockdown with anything solid while Tyson was right there with more clean shots. Scary thing is, Holmes wasn't even out after the third knockdown: They wouldn't let him get up! He's trying to rise and his cornermen where holding him down so the ring doc could check him and Larry was saying "Richie get me off the damn canvas". If the fight hadn't been waved off as he's falling for the third time I think Larry would have got up for more.

Poet

theres no doubt in my mind a prime Holmes would beat Tyson also, but he wouldn't do it by running and jabbing. Why give a puncher room? The only reason Shavers gave a guy like Ali problems was because Ali gave him room. I would think if Ali picked his spots he could have finished shavers quite easily.

I should also probably say that fighting on the backfoot and running are different from each other.

In the position Holmes was in I don't think he would get up and make a comeback, he was spread out on his back. After the fight Holmes said Tyson completely knocked his equilibrium off course. It was probably due to his old age though (and accumulation of punches like you said), during his younger years his re cooperative powers were much better, hence getting up from a shavers right hand.

[StarshipTrooper]

theres no doubt in my mind a prime Holmes would beat Tyson also, but he wouldn't do it by running and jabbing. Why give a puncher room? The only reason Shavers gave a guy like Ali problems was because Ali gave him room. I would think if Ali picked his spots he could have finished shavers quite easily.

I should also probably say that fighting on the backfoot and running are different from each other.

In the position Holmes was in I don't think he would get up and make a comeback, he was spread out on his back. After the fight Holmes said Tyson completely knocked his equilibrium off course. It was probably due to his old age though (and accumulation of punches like you said), during his younger years his re cooperative powers were much better, hence getting up from a shavers right hand.

Good points, although I think Holmes would jab Tyson crazy: He did that to everyone when he was in his prime. I don't think he'd "run" as Larry was never a runner; I do think Homes would keep Tyson on the end of his jab like Douglas did. Not running, but taking a back step or two when Tyson moved into intermediate range. It means constantly being alert but then Holmes was a very alert fighter.

Poet

[La_Vibora]

As I have said many times before, you have to add the Cus factor in here. If Cus is alive for this fight, I think Mike would have an excellent chance to win. Cus knew Ali's style very well and he was so confindent in knowing that he could get a defeat over Ali that he was planning on getting Jose Torres to move up to heavyweight to fight Ali. Also, lets not forget about this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrWlHDYDkjg

I believe that Cus would have had Tyson prepared to defeat Ali, just like with Larry Holmes. Tyson is the only man to knock out Holmes for a reason, in addition to Larry obviously being past his best, Mike and Cus used to analyze Larry Holmes' every move since Tyson was an amatuer because they assumed that Larry would still be champ by the time Mike came up the ranks/ They would have been prepared for Ali imo. With that said though, I think Ali would pull out a decision(if it were going 15), but I wouldn't be surprised to see Mike pull out a victory either.

[American_Ninja]

Speed kills, and he was better in '67

[LondonRingRules]

Speed kills, and he was better in '67

** Ali isn't the only fighter with speed, but more importantly, timing and technique limit speed and left hooks to the jaw were like death rays to Ali.

Ali could never keep a 205 lb Frazier off him, and Frazier's physical health was declining rapidly after their first fight. He never could solve the Norton puzzle, so it's obvious he would be vulnerable to the bob and weave of Tyson and Dempsey as well, both possessers of excellent left hooks to complement their full arsenals which included healthy doses of speed.

The main thing Ali has going is that he tended to get up for big fights, so we'd see the best versions of him. Otherwise he's a very inconsistent fighter through out his career and could be picked off. At his best he wasted a lot of energy missing punches and running around the ring when not walking on water and curing young boys of pimples.

Of course the haters of Tyson want to match the McBride version of Tyson with the Ali who dismantled Big Cat Williams. Whatever. Boys will be boys and they have their little games they play on their computers, but most of them prefer the MMA/UFC, so in their world, Brock Lesner would pick up Ali and pile drive him through the ring. It's all good clean fun......