rocky marciano vs bernard hopkins

[them_apples]

“I just used the moves of Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles and [Archie] the Mongoose Moore, to keep him spinning and rolling my shoulders and get out of there,” explained Hopkins.

"I could fight another four years if I wanted," Hopkins said Saturday night after retaining the Ring magazine light heavyweight title with a unanimous decision vs. Winky Wright. "I'm cut from the cloth of the old Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Henry Armstrong tradition. Those are people I look up to."

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2gB09VEEZvM&feature=related

Walcott/Louis I


http://youtube.com/watch?v=phATN3XWbwA

Hopkins/Tarver

Sorry but if you can't see the almost identical movements of both men than you shouldn't be analyzing boxing. For the record Walcott is considerablly better on his feet though. Also the terms "over the hill and past it" mean little to either man as both peaked and stayed at the elite level beyond their 30s.

Other than the shoulder slipping, I don't see the resemblance, regardless if he says he looks up to them. Walcott liked to show boat, that's something Hopkins doesn't do, he's very fundamental.

Really, Walcott to me is a "slippery" fighter, does unorthodox things coupled with traditional boxing skills. Hopkins is purely fundamental with some great slips and timing thrown in there. Hopkins also likes to fight in the clinch.

I'm curious how you assess these videos. I have only seen Walcotts big fights, to me he doesn't have better feet than Hopkins - I just can't see how you came to that conclusion. I think he's got the better jab and heavier hands however.

Hopkins never drops his guard and always tucks his chin, Walcott frequently drops his hands to get his opponents to throw punches at him so he can slip and counter. Hopkins will occasionally drop his left, but never walks around with both hands down.

the only hint of similarity i see is the way Hopkins pops his right over his opponents jab while circling to his right (or left).

Without that fluky shot he landed on Walcott he would have lost, I don't see him landing a fluky shot on Hopkins.

I'm a pretty big Hopkins fan I must say, I have a lot of his fights in my collection, but that's my take. Marciano isn't going to have "heavyweight size" over Hopkins, he comes to fight with about 10 lbs at best over B-Hop.

[Thunder Lips]

Other than the shoulder slipping, I don't see the resemblance, regardless if he says he looks up to them. Walcott liked to show boat, that's something Hopkins doesn't do, he's very fundamental.

Hopkins never drops his guard and always tucks his chin, Walcott frequently drops his hands to get his opponents to throw punches at him so he can slip and counter. Hopkins will occasionally drop his left, but never walks around with both hands down.

I'm a pretty big Hopkins fan I must say, I have a lot of his fights in my collection, but that's my take. Marciano isn't going to have "heavyweight size" over Hopkins, he comes to fight with about 10 lbs at best over B-Hop.

The difference in footwork is obvious. Your splitting hairs with everything else. At any rate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uawi5ueyiI4

Hopkins/Tarver Round 10

-Hopkins dropping his hands and showboating against Tarver.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5yR5lwL_y0

-Hopkins looking for the late KO against Pavlik.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uCpJ0bm6RI

-Louis makes Walcott pay for doing the same things. Walcott got cocky but no more cocky than Hopkins did in fights that were in the bag; if Pavlik or Tarver were of Louis' class who knows? Cockiness isn't what led to Walcott getting caught by Marciano anyway; a much more grueling back and forth match than the scorecards implied though Jersey Joe certainly deserved to be ahead. Rocky's constant pressure, occasional counters, physical power in the clinch, and body work took a toll.

[them_apples]

The difference in footwork is obvious. Your splitting hairs with everything else. At any rate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uawi5ueyiI4

Hopkins/Tarver Round 10

-Hopkins dropping his hands and showboating against Tarver.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5yR5lwL_y0

-Hopkins looking for the late KO against Pavlik.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uCpJ0bm6RI

-Louis makes Walcott pay for doing the same things. Walcott got cocky but no more cocky than Hopkins did in fights that were in the bag; if Pavlik or Tarver were of Louis' class who knows? Cockiness isn't what led to Walcott getting caught by Marciano anyway; a much more grueling back and forth match than the scorecards implied though Jersey Joe certainly deserved to be ahead. Rocky's constant pressure and body work out of the clinches as well as his counter punching took a toll.

Thread also mentions prime Hopkins who rarely fought above 160 and would in fact be over 20+ lbs lighter at the least. LHW Hopkins would still be more than a dime lighter give or take; probably a more fair match up but the extra weight won't make a huge difference. Walcott was a strong effective clincher at 198 lb but Marciano's power and pressure even wore him down.

Hopkins showed a pretty controlled aggression even when assaulting Pavlik, Walcott's aggression left him open to be tagged. Everyone fights differently, Hopkins is safety first, hence - no KO. Walcott was much more advantageous when going for the KO - loading up and putting everything behind it, but doing so sometimes leaves you open.

a Prime Hopkins at 160 is clearly to small, but at 175 I can't see a slow one dimensional fighter like Marciano beating him. People seem to think Marciano is going to be to big and punch to hard but fail to recognize his hardest fights were against washed up LHW's, a division Hopkins fits nicely into.

Completely don't agree with you about Walcott having better footwork, whats your definition of good footwork? there is a lot more to it than bouncing on your toes for long periods of time.

an example would be Hopkins aligning his left foot outside his opponents right foot, taking a small step forward and throwing the right cross at 8 O'clock. doing this takes incredible timing of footwork, usually done after a couple feints, but it's one of the moves he uses to land his right hand flush.

I think you are confused with the notion of "good footwork". Bouncing on your toes improves your reaction time and almost works as a constant mini "feint" but footwork goes much beyond that. Most people look at Duran and think "meh" in terms of footwork, when really he was using a lot of well placed steps. A more modern example would be Pacquiao vs De La hoya. Incredible footwork.

[Thunder Lips]

"Hopkins showed a pretty controlled aggression even when assaulting Pavlik, Walcott's aggression left him open to be tagged. Everyone fights differently, Hopkins is safety first, hence - no KO. Walcott was much more advantageous when going for the KO - loading up and putting everything behind it, but doing so sometimes leaves you open."

Oh please, Hopkins was working Pavlik over like a heavybag while he was winding up, running his mouth, and laughing. Louis ate Walcott's signature counter left to come back with an impossibly accurate combination of powerpunches. A confused and broken Pavlik just hid behind his gloves and prayed.


"Completely don't agree with you about Walcott having better footwork, whats your definition of good footwork? there is a lot more to it than bouncing on your toes for long periods of time."

If that's what you think of Walcott's footwork your not worth anymore of my time. Good day. Yeeesh, Walcott didn't even bounce on his toes that much to be effective.

Also, funny that to Marciano haters Walcott and Charles will forever be known as washed up light heavies. I guess their World Heavyweight Title reigns mean nothing...

[0Rooster4Life0]

i can NOT Beleave you are acually think Hopkins would beat Rocky, ROcky isnt just a Good fighter, he is one of the best heavyweights of all time, Give me a damn break, I like B Hop but come on now. Lets jump back into reality

[them_apples]

yea I really do, aside from punching power what does rocky have? he almost lost to older LHW's, why shouldn't Hopkins pick him apart, he's a good light heavyweight with sound defense.

Rocky is extremely overrated, he's lucky he didn't run into Liston or even Patterson.

[elgaringo]

All he has to do is land that right and thats bhops first ko loss right there!!!!

[elgaringo]

yea I really do, aside from punching power what does rocky have? he almost lost to older LHW's, why shouldn't Hopkins pick him apart, he's a good light heavyweight with sound defense.

Rocky is extremely overrated, he's lucky he didn't run into Liston or even Patterson.

WHAT!!!! PATERSON!!!! mmmmm Rocky by death!!!!

[them_apples]

All he has to do is land that right and thats bhops first ko loss right there!!!!

can you tell me how the slow telegraphed right hand of Marciano is going to find its way to Bernard Hopkins chin.

[TheGreatA]

Marciano beats Hopkins in a 15 round fight just like he beat Walcott, Charles and Moore.

Nothing to do with his skill (although he was a little better as a boxer than given credit for) but rather his strength, power, conditioning and heart.

Prime Hopkins weighs only 160 lbs so I assume we are talking about the 40+ year old 180+ lb version who I doubt would be able to keep up with Rocky for 15 rounds. He couldn't do it for 12 with Calzaghe.