The Liston/Ali fights were fixed...

[Kid McCoy]

The only man who knows for sure what was really going on in those two fights is no longer with us, so the truth will probably never be known. All the rest of us can do is speculate

Liston lasted the distance after breaking his jaw against Marty Marshall, took dozens of clean shots from the hard-hitting Cleveland Williams without flinching, and didn't crumble when he had to track down the elusive Eddie Machen. Yet against Ali he retires on his stool with the fight dead even on the cards. Doesn't look right to me.

The rematch was an all round joke. Even if you accept the anchor punch as genuine, there is still the farce of Ali hysterical and refusing to go to a neutral corner, Liston not getting a count, the inexperienced Walcott taking instructions from people outside the ring, and the fight finally stopped with both men trading punches. At the very least, it should have been ruled a no contest.

[KostyaTszyu44]

hmm yeah like i said i cant rule out a fix in the second fight but the first one was legit

ali was a great fighter still though, best HW of all time

[Southpaw Stinger]

I just can't see how that first fight was a fix. There is no evidence. All I saw was a fast, athletic 22 year old outmoving and outboxing a slower, unprepared older guy. Liston took him light and didn't prepare for 15 rounds. When Clay was blinded Liston tried his best to knock him out. You can see how desperate he is to get Clay out of there. When it didn't work he quit rather than go on taking more rounds of punishment.

Why would the mob fix the first fight for Liston to lose? If the mob controlled Liston and the championship, why would they give it up and hand it over to Clay who wasn't involved with the mob, but was with the unpopular black ******s? Makes no sense.

[The Jackal]

its a surprise if i told you no one would come Muhammad Ali.

the shot that ko'd liston was clocked at 4 1-100ths of a second

[Southpaw Stinger]

its a surprise if i told you no one would come Muhammad Ali.

the shot that ko'd liston was clocked at 4 1-100ths of a second

Yeah the punch definatly landed.

[Silencers]

I really don't think they were, the first fight was definitely not IMO, the second fight, while being su****ious, was because of Walcott's bad refereeing more than anything shady involving the mob or the Nation of Islam IMO.

[gridiron]

According to his wife, a few seconds into the 2nd meeting Sonny realized he couldn't beat his opponent and just took an easy way out. Ali and Liston were supposed to clash in the autumn of '64, reportedly Liston trained very hard at that moment. But Ali had to visit the hospital (forgotten why), and the fight was postponed. Receiving the news, it seems like Sonny lost some of his spirit. Is Sonny the only world heavyweight champ who wasn't honored by a parade in his home town. In a BBC documentary of his life, they revealed he was devasted when no one, not even reporters, met up to welcome him as he arrived at the airport after the 1st Patterson demolition. Poor guy!

[gridiron]

Also, Sonny ran away from home at the age of 13 'cause he took such terrible beatings from his father. From then on, he was on his own. Having a background like that, I don't think you care much of which people you get mixed up with. If you haven't been paid respect as a human being before, you choose the first one who does.

[Southpaw Stinger]

According to his wife, a few seconds into the 2nd meeting Sonny realized he couldn't beat his opponent and just took an easy way out. Ali and Liston were supposed to clash in the autumn of '64, reportedly Liston trained very hard at that moment. But Ali had to visit the hospital (forgotten why), and the fight was postponed. Receiving the news, it seems like Sonny lost some of his spirit. Is Sonny the only world heavyweight champ who wasn't honored by a parade in his home town. In a BBC documentary of his life, they revealed he was devasted when no one, not even reporters, met up to welcome him as he arrived at the airport after the 1st Patterson demolition. Poor guy!

I believe it was an operation to sort out a hernia.

[gridiron]

I believe it was an operation to sort out a hernia.

Thanks for info.