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Originally posted by TheEvilSaint
...And they called Bill Clinton "slick".
In addition to the type of judges characteristic of the Hagler and Hearns II tragedies , ole' RL always had referees ready to jump in and call TKO's in his favor on the basis of hand-speed-demonstrating patty-cake flurries that packed surprisingly little damage. Watch his "stoppages" of Kalule and Benitez and Hearns and you see what I mean...Contrast that to when Hearns or Hagler stopped you--you woke up somewhere else.
Most things considered, I rate him AT BEST on par with Hearns as an all-time Welter (but not p4p) greats...both below Armstrong (who also belongs high on any sensible p4p list) , of course. But when you include a serious comparison of these two on the basis of "durability" and "work-ethic" demonstrated throughout their careers, The Hit Man whips his over-rated, overly-helped- by-officiating, manipulative, guest-starring ass.
Now add in the "entertainment" factor. Hearns--when confronted by that all-time p4p monster, Hagler (that NEITHER of the really belonged in the ring with), gave us 9 of the most entertaining minutes in the history of the game. "*****" Ray Leonard's manipulation of the fight configuration gave us a goddam running track so Leonard could AVOID fighting...giving us 36 of the most painful minutes in the game. He either patty-cake "flurried" to "steal" rounds or ran or clinched like Ruiz does now. (Watch all 3 of the Duran "classics" and you see almost as much clinching initiated by RL as we get pissed off at Ruiz for...compare that to how Hearns attacked the same foe.)
(BTW, LW-Duran is an all-time p4p great...but the welter-Duran was a way-past-prime blown-up version looking for some serious paydays--way more attractive to *****-Ray to come out of retirement for than giving well-deserved rematches to either Benitez or Hearns. Max $$$/minimum risk. And after he properly lost the decision...and found out how out of shape "Hands of Stone" had become in the time after the fight, he took full advantage of his marketing clout to swing the odds substantially, as I mentioned before.)
So, LW-Duran and Hagler both deserve SUBSTANTIALLY higher placement than R.Leonard on any all-time p4p list...and Thomas Hearns deserves to be ranked AT LEAST as high on any all-time list (welter or p4P). Including "durability", "work ethic", "sustainability of career", and "downright entertainment value of his fights"--all IN-THE-RING criteria--sway it for the HitMan. Leonard has unfortunately and unfairly benefited from primarily OUTSIDE-THE-RING considerations in which he ruled supreme--"charisma" or "personality" or "marketability" issues--accounting for his "knee-jerk" inclusion high on p4p lists.
Sad, isn't it that so many boxing fans are snowed by it. Even sadder for many now-forgotten true greats with vastly superior in-the-ring careers when Leonard is preferentially leap-frogged past them on the basis of his considerable outside-the-ring attributes. Too many hot-summer-night "stories" have been told on the porches over the last few decades by non-real-boxing-fan dads to their children and its burned an overly-intense image of this guy's greatness into our collective psyche. BUT the real boxing fan must make him stand in line where he belongs. In evaluating careers, we're right to marvel at "sizzle"...but not at the expense of the "steak".
So, to summarize Ray Leonard's place in history, setting aside outside-the-ring "sizzle" and evaluating only on the basis of "inside-the-ring" steak.....He's clearly an all-time welter AT or BEHIND Hearns...but any p4p-list that puts him above Hagler or Duran...well, let's just say GWB could make a better case that Iraq was a serious threat to the USA's national security.
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