what in your estimation prevents duran from being the greatest fighter whoever lived?

[C.Y.]

I have contempt for him because he's an ******* that talks smack and doesn't back it up in the ring. When someone makes promises prior to fights I expect him to deliver on them. If he doesn't then he's nothing more than a loud-mouthed punk. That's what I consider Mayweather. It's simple: Either delivery on what you say or say nothing at all.

Poet

sorry bruh but you sound like a big time hater.. mayweather says he's going to win and he does. he's undefeated.. you might as well not like duran, ali, and many other fighters for that matter, because damn near every boxer talks trash and alot of them do not back it up and lose fights.. you dont have to like the fighter, but atleast respect the fighter for what he has accomplished in the sport. you seem like a knowledgeable boxing fan, im surprised you would feel that way.

[wmute]

I have contempt for him because he's an ******* that talks smack and doesn't back it up in the ring. When someone makes promises prior to fights I expect him to deliver on them. If he doesn't then he's nothing more than a loud-mouthed punk. That's what I consider Mayweather. It's simple: Either delivery on what you say or say nothing at all.

Poet

You must have hated Ali, since he promised ass-whoppings and often delivered duds. Did you expect Ali to say I am going to jab him till you guys fall asleep hold behind the ****er behind the head. You guys won't like it, but neither he is, as his rhythm will be gone. Even many of his stoppage in the 70s were due to him conserving energy.

Either that or you have double standards.

[StarshipTrooper]

Poet then you would have contempt for Duran who many times said what he was going to do, especially to leonard in the rematch, and he ended up quitting. Same thing with Tyson, etc..in fact every fighter.

The fact is Mayweather has said he was going to win, and he won, vs fighters who have said they were going to win, and lose.

There's a big difference between talking smack and not following through and not being ABLE to follow through because your opponent didn't let you. Case in point, Mayweather says he's going to punch it out with an opponent then running like Carl Lewis when the bell rings. That contrasts with Ali talking about what he was going to do with Frazier only to find Frazier wasn't going to cooperate. The point being the first case involves an act of will while the second involves someone else's will preventing your intent. In other words what Mayweather would fail to do involved a concious decision NOT to back up his mouth. THAT'S what I can't stand. From any athlete. It's not simply a matter of failing to win when you say you will or perform to a standard a you claim you'll perform to; it's about a willful decision NOT to do something.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

you have some good points, but why do you disrespect a fighter by calling him gay?
pink brought up mayweather to prove his points about duran's resume being overrated which i also believe is. i still have duran as an ATG of course and you can make the same argument for mayweather

Trust me the name "Gayweather" didn't originate with me. Run a forum search on the name and see how many times it pops up without my name being attached.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

sorry bruh but you sound like a big time hater.. mayweather says he's going to win and he does. he's undefeated.. you might as well not like duran, ali, and many other fighters for that matter, because damn near every boxer talks trash and alot of them do not back it up and lose fights.. you dont have to like the fighter, but atleast respect the fighter for what he has accomplished in the sport. you seem like a knowledgeable boxing fan, im surprised you would feel that way.

Make no mistake I despise Mayweather. I'm honest about that. This is very different then with someone say like Tyson for whom I detest his hard core fans but don't have anything against Mike personally.

In my response to wmute I laid out my case for where and why the difference exists: Specifically, saying you'll kick a fighters ass but instead having your own ass kicked isn't the same as what I'm talking about. What I'm refering to is saying you'll do something then conciously deciding NOT to do it.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

You must have hated Ali, since he promised ass-whoppings and often delivered duds. Did you expect Ali to say I am going to jab him till you guys fall asleep hold behind the ****er behind the head. You guys won't like it, but neither he is, as his rhythm will be gone. Even many of his stoppage in the 70s were due to him conserving energy.

Either that or you have double standards.

Like I said, the difference is that Ali promised ass-whoppings with every intent to deliver them; the opponents didn't always cooperate. Ali has credibility as well since, in his prime, if he said he'd stop an opponent in the X round he almost always did! Remember, my issue is with willful decisions not to deliver as opposed to being prevented from delivering by an opponent who came to win too.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

Poet, your sounding like the McCain Palin ticket, just lying and disregarding the facts. You leave out all the very very good fighters he beat when he was at 130 and 135. Mayweather since his 10th professional fight has gotten in the ring with good to very good to great fighters, EACH TIME. Do I like him NO,,in fact HELL NO! But in a age where we routinely hype up Duran whose resume if freakin a joke when compared to Leonard and then Mayweather, correction resume of wins, as Duran has a resume but it lacks when asked the question if he won these fights. The answer is Duran ****** when you look at his resume vs top fighters..... How is this a all time top 5 fighter. Can anyone tell me factually FACTUALLY, what he did vs his best opponents to justify this. quit, got ko'd, etc.. Compare this to Mayweather who has not faced this leve of opposition but he has not lost either, and he did fight a past his prime dlh but he faced him at 154, which no one mentions this...the only fight Mayweather has ever fought up there. He also has beaten some very good welters. He has been a little wimp when it comes to fighting the best welters, and this I concur with the haterism of Mayweather, but Duran faced the best, and yes give him credit for that, but he was 1-4 vs them.

First off, lets keep politics out of this shall we? Unless you aren't adverse to someone describing you as a neo-socialist far-left whack job. Afterall, why alienate those posters who may hold different political views your's when this is, afterall, a boxing forum.

Secondly. Here is a list of all Mayweather opponents after he won his first belt along with their respective records at the time of the fight:

Ricky Hatton 43- 0-0
Oscar De La Hoya 38- 4-0
Carlos Baldomir 43- 9-6
Zab Judah 34- 3-0
Sharmba Mitchell 56- 4-0
Arturo Gatti 39- 6-0
Henry Bruseles 21- 2-1
DeMarcus Corley 28- 2-1
Phillip N'Dou 31- 1-0
Victoriano Sosa 35- 2-2
Jose Luis Castillo 46- 5-1
Jose Luis Castillo 45- 4-1
Jesus Chavez 35- 1-0
Carlos Hernandez 33- 2-1
Diego Corrales 33- 0-0
Emanuel Augustus 22-16-4
Gregorio Vargas 40- 6-1
Carlos Gerena 34- 2-0
Justin Juuko 33- 2-1
Carlos Rios 44- 2-1
Angel Manfredy 25- 2-1
Genaro Hernandez 38- 1-1

Now. Please enlighten me as to which of these fighters are ATGs in their primes?

Poet

[wpink1]

First off, lets keep politics out of this shall we? Unless you aren't adverse to someone describing you as a neo-socialist far-left whack job. Afterall, why alienate those posters who may hold different political views your's when this is, afterall, a boxing forum.

Secondly. Here is a list of all Mayweather opponents after he won his first belt along with their respective records at the time of the fight:

Ricky Hatton 43- 0-0
Oscar De La Hoya 38- 4-0
Carlos Baldomir 43- 9-6
Zab Judah 34- 3-0
Sharmba Mitchell 56- 4-0
Arturo Gatti 39- 6-0
Henry Bruseles 21- 2-1
DeMarcus Corley 28- 2-1
Phillip N'Dou 31- 1-0
Victoriano Sosa 35- 2-2
Jose Luis Castillo 46- 5-1
Jose Luis Castillo 45- 4-1
Jesus Chavez 35- 1-0
Carlos Hernandez 33- 2-1
Diego Corrales 33- 0-0
Emanuel Augustus 22-16-4
Gregorio Vargas 40- 6-1
Carlos Gerena 34- 2-0
Justin Juuko 33- 2-1
Carlos Rios 44- 2-1
Angel Manfredy 25- 2-1
Genaro Hernandez 38- 1-1

Now. Please enlighten me as to which of these fighters are ATGs in their primes?

Poet

Poet, you seem to be a intelligent boxing fan. I dont think you read my post or if you didnt completley you understand I never ever....NEVER EVER said, that Mayweater beat all Time greats. Please quote and post where I said that.

What I said is that Mayweather list of fighter he beat..Thanks for listing them is better than Durans list that he beat...

Shoudl I list the entire list of Bums he beat with records of 10-13, 0-3, etc.. These fights where after he beat Buchanon also. I understand early on people fight bums, but if you ar anyone else wants to point out that Duran is a all time top fighter because of his dominance at lightweight..Then tell me how Beating Buchanon, Dejesue, Marcil, Kyobashi then the 60 other bums is better than what leonard did at Welterweight or Mayweather did, or Chavez did (yes he fought bums too, but he beat more top fighters than Duran did), Jones did...Etc.

I get accused of double standard, hmmm Duran loses at his natural weight, fights bums, his best four fights are not the level of Whitacker, Leoanrd, Maywather beat,, Then he moves up and yes beats leonard but overall record vs the best is 1-4. You got to be kidding me.

Some of you ignore the facts..Like McCain. Try to distort the issues. I ask what has Duran done Factually and compare it to others. You cant favorably.

Also, Mayweather simply won each time he stepped in the ring. Regardless of what you say, all boxers say they are going to do this or that, and end up losing. Tyson, Duran, both got ko'd before, both pretty much quit, Come on Poet.

[Alexis Vastine]

NO MAAS!!!

Leonard boxed duran's fight and lost. When roles were reversed, he quit like a little *****!!!

even though i love ray, i consider him the best, i don't think he faced the kinda talent that duran faced.he faced alot of tough stone beared men, but not any hearn's or benitez's or leonards.

Simply not true. Randy Turpin, Jake LaMotta, Joey Maxim, Kid Gavilan and a few others were handy, see their other fights. Some could box well on inside, but SRR made em look like what you say, men with just beards. SRR made was just too good in the rematches.

Plus boxing was different then, they were almost as active as tennis players, or even footballers! You have the opposite of rose tinted glasses!!

[AntonTheMeh]

turpin and gavilan where akward by no means the athlete that hearns was.