Another list

[QueensburyRules]

- -Monte been takin' serious stick on NS for not including FloydBoy on his welt list!

[BattlingNelson]

- -Monte been takin' serious stick on NS for not including FloydBoy on his welt list!

Yes. As expected.

Monte got himself a bunch of new haterz…….

[Rusty Tromboni]

I can't see much to disagree with on Monte Cox's list, obviously judgment can only be reserved on the most recent entrants like AJ, Ruiz Jr etc...as their next fight could completely change our views of them

Here's Cox's list, with my own gloss to it. Again, I largely agree with Cox, and have little to quibble about.


Best Overall Boxer: Muhammad Ali - based on accomplishments, not necessarily H2H in all matchups, yes.
Fastest: Muhammad Ali - footspeed + handspeed + reactions - yes, agreed.
Best Fundamentally: Joe Louis - yes, Louis in fundamental's was equal to anyone else.
Best Jab: Larry Holmes - hmmm, maybe not for me, Ali's was measured at something like 000.6 of a second, and Liston's could break your face apart. I'd take Ali here - the fastest heavyweight jab to control my opponent over a slower but more variable Holmes jab.
Best Left Hook: Jack Dempsey, Joe Frazier - I'd take Dempsey's hook over Frazier, Louis, and the other champion left hookers.
Best Right Cross: Joe Louis - agreed, although only because of his power at very close range making his right more variable. Walcott and Lewis for example, might hit harder.
Best Uppercut: George Foreman, Mike Tyson - hmm, two very different uppercuts thrown from very different structures.
Best Counter Puncher: Joe Louis - yeah, better than Holyfield, Andy Ruiz (haha) etc.
Best Knockout Puncher (Power AND Accuracy): Joe Louis - agreed.
Best Combination Punching: Joe Louis - agreed.
Hardest One Punch: Mike Tyson - disagree, I think even among the champions there's harder punching heavies. But I guess the championship requirement see's Shavers excluded as not a champ, so too Cooney, Tua and a few other's whose one shot power is probably harder than Dempsey, Louis, Tyson or Klitchko's. Tyson's opponents usually emphaised the quickness rather than raw power of Tyson...but yeah, okay Tyson (strength and quickness = power) for one punch power.
Best Body Puncher: Joe Frazier - what it better that Louis'? I suppose it was more integral to Frazier's style that Louis' and used so much more....so, tentatively agreed.
Best Finisher: Joe Louis - agreed.
Best Footwork: Muhammad Ali - agreed. Yep, circling, punching while moving, cutting off the ring, placement just outside an opponents range etc.
Best at Feinting: Jack Johnson - agreed....the things I've read he'd do with his feints. Mind you, bouts were at a much slower pace then which aided Jackson's cognitive style. Blackburn was right, by the 20's, Jackson would have been boo'd out of any area.
Best Defense: Jack Johnson - agreed...
Strongest Physically: George Foreman - agreed, although I wonder how strong a peak Klitchko was.
Best Conditioned: Rocky Marciano - agreed.
Best Chin: Muhammad Ali - agreed.
Best Competition: Muhammad Ali - agreed, obviously.

If anyone ever wanted proof that Monte Cox never watched the fighters he wrote about, it's this.

I wonder, though, now with how much MMA has developed and the advent of YouTube, if his opinions haven't changed.

It's hard to be ignorant today, even if you've never Boxed.

[ecto55]

If anyone ever wanted proof that Monte Cox never watched the fighters he wrote about, it's this.

I wonder, though, now with how much MMA has developed and the advent of YouTube, if his opinions haven't changed.

It's hard to be ignorant today, even if you've never Boxed.

Hmmm, I don't know, I've got to admit my following of the sport has been pretty sporadic since about 2010, although I'm obviously aware of who the champions / premier fighters are and what their attributes are.

YouTube, well there's probably less pre-70's fights on YouTube than I own, so I'm not sure what value TouTube has to assessing past fighters. If you don't own anything in terms of a fight collection its probably better than nothing though.

Some assessments, like Dempsey's left hooking are difficult to see on film...its easier (with blurry) to rely on eyewitness reports / descriptions and use the available footage to confirm these reports where possible.

I'm not sure what MMA adds to / changes how I should look at boxing (or boxing's 'striking'). I might be missing a whole new facet to boxing here - or maybe just missed your meaning.

More curious to see where you'd disagree with Cox's Hvy's list, it looks all right to me...but then like Cox (I assume) I am entirely ignorant of MMA and seem to get less impressed with new fighters as I age (natural tendency I think).

[Rusty Tromboni]

Hmmm, I don't know, I've got to admit my following of the sport has been pretty sporadic since about 2010, although I'm obviously aware of who the champions / premier fighters are and what their attributes are.

YouTube, well there's probably less pre-70's fights on YouTube than I own, so I'm not sure what value TouTube has to assessing past fighters. If you don't own anything in terms of a fight collection its probably better than nothing though.

Some assessments, like Dempsey's left hooking are difficult to see on film...its easier (with blurry) to rely on eyewitness reports / descriptions and use the available footage to confirm these reports where possible.

I'm not sure what MMA adds to / changes how I should look at boxing (or boxing's 'striking'). I might be missing a whole new facet to boxing here - or maybe just missed your meaning.

More curious to see where you'd disagree with Cox's Hvy's list, it looks all right to me...but then like Cox (I assume) I am entirely ignorant of MMA and seem to get less impressed with new fighters as I age (natural tendency I think).

It's evident from film that Johnson wasn't very good.

He was bigger and stronger than his opponents. Norton looked more impressive than anyone else putting a shot and undersized Jerry Quarry away (Quarry, when in his prime, used to kick his ass in sparring). But Norton wasn't the best Heavyweight of his era. Not consistently for any length of time. Sometimes he goes completely forgotten.

Johnson doesn't even look as good as Norton. But he doesn't have even one guy to check him. No Foreman, no Cooney, no Holmes, no Ali, no Young.

If he was great at defense, I'd love to see the film proving it.

Braddock out-boxing Schmeling faaaar exceeds anything Johnson ever did. Not to mention Braddock could drop a man BIGGER than him with one punch.

There is refurbished footage of Dempsey vs. Willary. And Dempsey vs. Tunney. One of our members performed the artwork and has posted it here.

Dempsey was a phenom. Possibly the most talented fighter ever.