Tyson being past his prime when Douglas beat him???

[The Iron Man]

He doninated and scored early knockouts against good although not elite fighters, and that seperates from Ali, Louis, Foreman or Marciano ect. They not only knocked out elite fighters, their first losses came to elite fighters and they also showed the will to come back from a lossing position, something that Tyson has never shown.

I think comparing marciano to tyson in this instance is bad, marciano had the worst opponents of all the heavyweights that are considerd great. As i said in my first post(i thought u agreed) tyson had come back from lossing positions.

I also remember a prime Tyson having probems with Jose Rabilita. His corner had to tell him to get back into his game becuase he was becoming passive becuase he was in with someone that actually wanted to win and was fighting him back.

Yeh Ribalta kept getting up, and this was tysons biggest step up in opposition. But he kept going and kept fighting and ending up gettin a 10th rnd TKO. Which i think shows some heart, especially for some1 who at this stage was used to getting people out there early, or them falling and not getting up (or surviving long after). There were tillis and green before, but they held and ran.

He had good wins over Holfyield, Bert Cooper, Botha, Smith, Alex Stewart ect. That surpasses anything Spinks did at heavyweight IMO.

He had two decisions over a near prime Holmes, and even if they were disputed. It still takes some fighter to do that against someone like holmes

[Boogie Nights]

slicksouthpaw16

it would have been a fun discussion if at least you could have been a tad more reasonable. It's funny, i dont think that you noticed, but in every thread you start about tyson, you're the only one of all posters who keeps arguing the same things over and over, while other posters disagree with you for all the right reasons. and not just any 'fan boys', but credible posters who dont give 2 ****s about tyson but are able to see through the bull****.

Mike tyson is a great fighter, and there's nothing you can do about it. whatever you may make him out to be, a coward, non-elite, decent but not quite good enough to be a great fighter, is of none concern to everybody else. im not sure what you try to prove when you start these topics, but you're not convincing anyone of anything

there's no given formula for evaluating a fighter for greatness. There's however a fan's opinion, and it's the only true formula that counts

Just because Ali did something, it doesnt make him a model of greatness for other fighters. Not everyone can be like ali, just like not everyone can be like tyson

tyson's career went downhill, unfourtanetly, too little too late, to further prove his greatness to harsh critics like yourself. Most people dont realize what prison can do to a man, let alone a fighter. it's not exactly same as ali's exile, or holmes' inactivity. with mike's mentality, his stay at prison didn not benefit him. or the divorce, or the lawsuits he had with King. the fact that he kept on fighting, even against limited opposition should serve as a good thing in itself.

Tyson's showed his abilities, he took on whoever he needed to take, he unified the titles by beating other ranked contenders, and those who entered the tournamnets with him

there's however, going to be criticism for him being inexperienced fighter when he couldnt knock out a james tillis, or when for some reason tyrell biggs stopped fighting his fight. there's always going to be criticism for some reason. im tired of arguing with you about greatness. you too damn stubborn to admit when you wrong, or give another poster credit for a good arguement which overules your objections.

Joe Louis is a great fighter, but his competition wasnt exactly stellar. Floyd Patterson never did anything to deserve the kind of greatness that tyson doesnt deserve in your views.

so it's getting really irritating of trying to convince you of something that you refuse to accept.

[butterfly1964]

Tyson wasn't past his prime when Douglas beat him, but he wasn't on his game that night for sure.

[butterfly1964]

You never seen Ali, Frazier, Holmes, Louis or Marciano lose to this kind of opponent even on thier worse days and they also had personal problems. I do not have a problem with Tyson and think that he was certainly one of the most talented heavyweights of all, but some people need to rethink putting him in the same sentence with Ali or Louis. Think about it, these men fought in a better division and their first losses came to great heavyweights. Tyson fought in a weaker division and loss to...................Buster Douglas.

So what made Max Schmeling a great fighter besides beating Louis?

[slicksouthpaw16]

it would have been a fun discussion if at least you could have been a tad more reasonable. It's funny, i dont think that you noticed, but in every thread you start about tyson, you're the only one of all posters who keeps arguing the same things over and over, while other posters disagree with you for all the right reasons. and not just any 'fan boys', but credible posters who dont give 2 ****s about tyson but are able to see through the bull****.

Mike tyson is a great fighter, and there's nothing you can do about it. whatever you may make him out to be, a coward, non-elite, decent but not quite good enough to be a great fighter, is of none concern to everybody else. im not sure what you try to prove when you start these topics, but you're not convincing anyone of anything

there's no given formula for evaluating a fighter for greatness. There's however a fan's opinion, and it's the only true formula that counts

Just because Ali did something, it doesnt make him a model of greatness for other fighters. Not everyone can be like ali, just like not everyone can be like tyson

tyson's career went downhill, unfourtanetly, too little too late, to further prove his greatness to harsh critics like yourself. Most people dont realize what prison can do to a man, let alone a fighter. it's not exactly same as ali's exile, or holmes' inactivity. with mike's mentality, his stay at prison didn not benefit him. or the divorce, or the lawsuits he had with King. the fact that he kept on fighting, even against limited opposition should serve as a good thing in itself.

Tyson's showed his abilities, he took on whoever he needed to take, he unified the titles by beating other ranked contenders, and those who entered the tournamnets with him

there's however, going to be criticism for him being inexperienced fighter when he couldnt knock out a james tillis, or when for some reason tyrell biggs stopped fighting his fight. there's always going to be criticism for some reason. im tired of arguing with you about greatness. you too damn stubborn to admit when you wrong, or give another poster credit for a good arguement which overules your objections.

Joe Louis is a great fighter, but his competition wasnt exactly stellar. Floyd Patterson never did anything to deserve the kind of greatness that tyson doesnt deserve in your views.

so it's getting really irritating of trying to convince you of something that you refuse to accept.

Wow, you really are obessed with Tyson and i'm not saying it to be ignorant, its the tuth. Again, i did not make this as a hate thread but you are turning it into that. I already know Tyson's problems and what he COULD have been. I made this thread to let people know that Tyson was still in his prime when he fought Douglas and the fact that he wasn't motivated or unprepared doesn't matter for the simple fact that those were still his prime years. Ali, Frazier, Marciano or Louis were motivated and had that consistantcy so they proved that they were great in their prime years. Tyson went to prison, lost focus and wasted those years. Greatness is by what you achieved, not by your potential.

[slicksouthpaw16]

So what made Max Schmeling a great fighter besides beating Louis?

Hes certainly not an all time great but is a deserving hall of famer and so is Tyson. I have stated in previous posts that Tyson was a hall of famer and a great heavyweight, but no where near an ALL TIME great.

[Boogie Nights]

Wow, you really are obessed with Tyson and i'm not saying it to be ignorant, its the tuth. Again, i did not make this as a hate thread but you are turning it into that. I already know Tyson's problems and what he COULD have been. I made this thread to let people know that Tyson was still in his prime when he fought Douglas and the fact that he wasn't motivated or unprepared doesn't matter for the simple fact that those were still his prime years. Ali, Frazier, Marciano or Louis were motivated and had that consistantcy so they proved that they were great in their prime years. Tyson went to prison, lost focus and wasted those years. Greatness is by what you achieved, not by your potential.

this response was expected from you, not being ignorant

im done with this thread

[butterfly1964]

Hes certainly not an all time great but is a deserving hall of famer and so is Tyson. I have stated in previous posts that Tyson was a hall of famer and a great heavyweight, but no where near an ALL TIME great.

Ok, so what do you mean when you say Louis never lost to this kind of fighter, like Buster Douglas is some kind of bum, but Schmeling is some kind of juggernaut heavyweight even though without Louis his resume is similar to Douglas without the Tyson fight?

[Boogie Nights]

Ok, so what do you mean when you say Louis never lost to [i][b]this[b][i] kind of fighter, like Buster Douglas is some kind of bum, but Schmeling is some kind of juggernaut heavyweight even though without Louis his resume is similar to Douglas without the Tyson fight?

my advice is dont even bother with him. im not trying to be an ass but he's full of it. expect him to come up with a list of contenders that make schemeling different from the next guy. i cant be bothered with arguing with him anymore, not just because his so sharp, but because he's that stubborn and ignorant.

he does it with every tyson thread, says it's not a hate thread, and mike is a good fighter, and then starts bashing him for 10 pages.

i already know his agenda

[The Iron Man]

Greatness is by what you achieved, not by your potential.

So why are you judging him on his losses?

Cleaning up the division is a exciting and Dominating fashion.
Beating all the top contenders.
Uniting and become the Undisputed Champ.
Becoming the youngest champ of all time.
Becomming the WBC and WBA after 4 years of inactivity.
9 Defences of the title.

Now put those against Marcianos achievements, against foremans achievements and fraziers. You are not judging on achivements.