How are Joe Louis's opponents any better than Tysons'?

[Boogie Nights]

Walcott was not groomed for greatness, he was a talented but raw journeyman/part-time boxer for many years when he picked up most of his losses. He was a family man who worked in the shipyards for crying out loud. He didn't even have a real trainer until Blackburn, which was only for a brief period of time. He was semi-retired when Felix Bocchicchio became his manager in 45, saving his career. It was in this time he developed into a great Championship caliber fighter. This is why people shouldn't just read records, there is usually more going on than just numbers. Walcott is one of boxing's great stories; Marciano, Louis, and the underrated Layne were the only losses he didn't revenge once he hit his stride and he still managed to give all three very tough fights in the process.

If your gonna bash a late bloomer like Walcott's legacy because of the way he started his career, we might as well bash Tyson because of the way he ended his career:

you're the same guy who voted baer and walcott were all time greats.

let's get this straight Thunder Lips i know you dont like me, that's fine, but if you think your witty posts, or pictures are gonna get me mad then you're wrong

personally i dont give a ****, im on this forum to communicate, and trade opinions, im not here to get on anyone's bad side. i know what i know, that is enough for me to believe what's right is right because it's true. many people have an ideal view on what greatness represents. i know your take on the tyson subject, that's fine. you stopped having a normal boxing discussion with me a long time ago

if i may, id like to say a couple of things. unfourtanetly slicksouthpaw has me on his ignore, so i cant come in into his thread and tell him what wonderfull fighters max baer and joe walcott are.

so ill say it here. they were not all time greats. they were damn good fighters, but no where near the 'great' status.

just because as you said walcott had a chilling ko over a blown up lightheavyweight it dont mean much. ezzard charles best weight was 175 pounds. he also beat joe twice. outside of his victories walcott doesnt have much to back up whatever credentials he has.

i already said that walcott's record is sketchy. he had good showings againt some good fighters but he came up short. while you may be right that he wasnt groomed to be a champ, it doesn mean that because he gave tough fights to louis and maciano than he needs to be considered great. that's in fairy tales

max baer had potential to be even greater than joe louis in his era. but a win over schmeling does not get you an 'all time great' status. it gives you recognition. if we're talking like that, than hasim rahman deserves to be great for what he did to lennox

[boxing_great]

[QUOTE=slicksouthpaw16;3585289]I pay a lot of attention to the circumstances of the fighters and the quality. Larry Holmes was coming off of a two year lay off. Spinks was a blown up light heavyweight with questionable wins over Larry Holmes ect. Tyson avoided all of the elite names of his era, Louis fought and beat all of the elites and fought everyone. Tyson avoided fighting Evander in his prime, Lewis in his prime, Ray Mercer, Witherspoon, the Foreman of the 90s, Riddock Bowe and a lot of others. He was protected and with the exception of Witherspoon, i would have favored all of them over Tyson.

He also didn't react well to being pushed backward and being in hard fights, which is why i couldn't see him matching well against he all time great tough guys.[/QUOTE]

That was probably Tyson's biggest weakness, which might have been the difference between an ATG, and an elite fighter.

[Jim Jeffries]

I pay a lot of attention to the circumstances of the fighters and the quality. Larry Holmes was coming off of a two year lay off. Spinks was a blown up light heavyweight with questionable wins over Larry Holmes ect. Tyson avoided all of the elite names of his era, Louis fought and beat all of the elites and fought everyone. Tyson avoided fighting Evander in his prime, Lewis in his prime, Ray Mercer, Witherspoon, the Foreman of the 90s, Riddock Bowe and a lot of others. He was protected and with the exception of Witherspoon, i would have favored all of them over Tyson.

He also didn't react well to being pushed backward and being in hard fights, which is why i couldn't see him matching well against he all time great tough guys.

Excellent post. Can't believe the thread didn't stop right here. Some people are just too hard headed to accept the truth.

[Boogie Nights]

Excellent post. Can't believe the thread didn't stop right here. Some people are just too hard headed to accept the truth.

you're the biggest tyson hater next to Poet, what makes you think that i would want your biased pathetic and hateful opinion? thanks for the one star Jim, that was very sweet of you. and another moronic idiot who thinks tyson avoided lewis when he was still fighting for his gold medal when tyson was the undisputed champ. bowe and mercer were not even around. you're

P.S i cant believe your bar is back to being green again, you should be in red forever for your ******ity

[Mike Tyson77]

Tyson fought better fighters than Louis. Most of the people Louis beat where farmers who trained by drinking beer.

[Jim Jeffries]

you're the biggest tyson hater next to Poet, what makes you think that i would want your biased pathetic and hateful opinion? thanks for the one star Jim, that was very sweet of you. and another moronic idiot who thinks tyson avoided lewis when he was still fighting for his gold medal when tyson was the undisputed champ. bowe and mercer were not even around. you're

P.S i cant believe your bar is back to being green again, you should be in red forever for your ******ity

Nice job getting banned.

[The Iron Man]

I wouldnt say Tyson fought a better standard of fighter than Joe Louis did. Louis did fight some cans but he did fight everybody and anybody. Tyson granted fought some aswell, but people forget he was very young heavyweight and it was all part of the learning experience. But i will say this, people concentrate alot on the standard of fighter tyson fought but are forgetting they were much better than the fighters Holmes, Marciano, Dempsey and Johnson fought!. Too much is made of the people tyson fought, and blasting people out in 3 rounds doesnt usualy help with peoples perception of the fighter.

[CHAVEZ4LIFE]

louis fought quality boxers tyson fought washed up boxers

[Boogie Nights]

louis fought quality boxers tyson fought washed up boxers

a silly statement to make on your first post, dont you think so? it's a common reply from someone who's not knowledgeable but says the first dumb thing that comes to mind

[Ascended]

They aren't not close