A Few Questions about George Foreman

[randy johnson]

1st Question.Why is it that every time some one here on at any other boxing forum mentions Foreman in a fantasy match up with a opponent who Foreman is clearly superior than you usually have him losing?Lets say it is a Foreman vs Joe Louis fantasy fight...one of the first things you will say is Foreman had no stamina in his prime so he would get tired and Louis would stop him after 4 or 5 rounds..First Foreman's record was 45-2 with 42 kos so only 3 men went the distance with him in his wins.So you dont know how bad or good his stamina was since he knocked out most of his opponents and he did it quickly and you can't base his 2 loses on stamin because they were more or less Foreman's ego that cost him both of those times.Nobody says since Ali was almost knocked out by the 180 pound Henry Cooper so every 180 pounder could do the same.Louis also had a fragile chin and pretty avoided any and all black fighters.The only black fighters i can name him fighting were Ezzard Charles a natural middleweight and Jersey Joe Walcott a 190 pound fighter and Louis lost 2 out the 3 fights they had.

2nd Question Why are the opponents Foreman faced in his 1st and second career put down but if Ali fought the same fighters he was praised for doing so?Foreman fought Chuck Wepner in Foreman's 3 pro fight and won in 3 while Ali fought him years after Foreman and had to go 15 rounds with him but when Foreman fought him he was a bum and when Ali fought him he was some tough world class warrior.Here is a list of some fighters Foreman fought past his prime and their records at the time he faced them.

Shannon Briggs 29-1
Lou Savarese 36-0
Axel Schulz 21-1-1
Michael Moorer 35-0
Tommy Morrison 36-1
Pierre Coetzer 39-4
Alex Stewart 28-3
Evander Holyfield 25-0
Adilson Rodrigues 36-3
Gerry Cooney 28-2
Bert Cooper 20-4

Each fighter i name was better than Leon Spinks a bum and Ali lost to him probably both times when Ali was in his 30's but to make Ali seem great people will say he was past his prime.But Foreman was past his prime and was still able to beat most of the guys i named and the ones he lost to basically ran like women from him.In his physical prime he fought

Jimmy Young 20-5
John Dino Denis 28-0
Scott LeDoux 18-3
Joe Frazier twice 32-3 and 29-0
Ken Norton 30-3
Ron Lyle 31-3-1
Gregorio Peralta twice 82-6-8 and 77-5-8
George Chuvalo 59-15-2
Boone Kirkman 22-1
Chuck Wepner 18-4-2
Some of these fighters might be well known but they were all skilled.Go to boxrec.com and check them out yourself.Foreman gets critized for fighting these people even though Foreman didn't have as many amatuer fights as Ali and was still learning for most of his whole first career and since he knocked out most of his opponents so quickly he never really learned anything.Joe Louis fought bum after bum and gets praised.Marciano fought bum after bum not to mention he isn't a heavyweight and would never last more than a round against fighters like Foreman,Tyson.Lewis, ect ect ect but Marciano is treated like a god here.
You will probably never see a fighter take 10 years off from boxing...come back at 38 and win the title again at 45 like Foreman did yet he probably gets put down more than any heavyweight champion in boxing history.I never could understand why.You should watch boxing and learn for yourself instead of judging a fighter based on some old school idiot like Burt Sugar who has his own biased views.Watch fighters with your own eyes.

[Scoooter]

Big fan of Big George. Top-five heavyweight, all time. My second favorite fighter of all time.

[TheGreatA]

Because he was wild and could be outboxed, although he could also knock you out cold with one punch that didn't even have to land very cleanly.

That's the problem with fantasy match-ups because there's no way one can surely predict how a fight would go, especially when a puncher like Foreman is involved.
Joe Louis could outlast Foreman and win a decision/stop Foreman late or he could be caught in the very first round by Foreman and be put down for good.

When Foreman kept his composure he was a very tough fighter to beat and a great heavyweight but early in his career he often didn't. When he came back and fought more cleverly, he was a bit too old by then to make most of his opponents pay.

If you put together the physicality of the younger Foreman and the mentality of the older Foreman, you would have, perhaps, the greatest puncher of all time.


Foreman fighting composed vs Chuvalo


Foreman going wild vs Ali

[Xyei]

If you put together the physicality of the younger Foreman and the mentality of the older Foreman, you would have, perhaps, the greatest puncher of all time.

Excellent point!

[SABBATH]

Full props to George from this corner also.

Really,the Ali fight is the only one that he lost because he gassed out.

He was still swinging for the fences with a good punch output vs Gregario Peralta in their distance fight and active late vs Jimmy Young under hot humid conditions.

The stamina knock is one of those throw the baby out with the bathwater generalizations.

[Terry A]

1st Question.Why is it that every time some one here on at any other boxing forum mentions Foreman in a fantasy match up with a opponent who Foreman is clearly superior than you usually have him losing?Lets say it is a Foreman vs Joe Louis fantasy fight...one of the first things you will say is Foreman had no stamina in his prime so he would get tired and Louis would stop him after 4 or 5 rounds..First Foreman's record was 45-2 with 42 kos so only 3 men went the distance with him in his wins.So you dont know how bad or good his stamina was since he knocked out most of his opponents and he did it quickly and you can't base his 2 loses on stamin because they were more or less Foreman's ego that cost him both of those times.Nobody says since Ali was almost knocked out by the 180 pound Henry Cooper so every 180 pounder could do the same.Louis also had a fragile chin and pretty avoided any and all black fighters.The only black fighters i can name him fighting were Ezzard Charles a natural middleweight and Jersey Joe Walcott a 190 pound fighter and Louis lost 2 out the 3 fights they had.

2nd Question Why are the opponents Foreman faced in his 1st and second career put down but if Ali fought the same fighters he was praised for doing so?Foreman fought Chuck Wepner in Foreman's 3 pro fight and won in 3 while Ali fought him years after Foreman and had to go 15 rounds with him but when Foreman fought him he was a bum and when Ali fought him he was some tough world class warrior.Here is a list of some fighters Foreman fought past his prime and their records at the time he faced them.

Shannon Briggs 29-1
Lou Savarese 36-0
Axel Schulz 21-1-1
Michael Moorer 35-0
Tommy Morrison 36-1
Pierre Coetzer 39-4
Alex Stewart 28-3
Evander Holyfield 25-0
Adilson Rodrigues 36-3
Gerry Cooney 28-2
Bert Cooper 20-4

Each fighter i name was better than Leon Spinks a bum and Ali lost to him probably both times when Ali was in his 30's but to make Ali seem great people will say he was past his prime.But Foreman was past his prime and was still able to beat most of the guys i named and the ones he lost to basically ran like women from him.In his physical prime he fought

Jimmy Young 20-5
John Dino Denis 28-0
Scott LeDoux 18-3
Joe Frazier twice 32-3 and 29-0
Ken Norton 30-3
Ron Lyle 31-3-1
Gregorio Peralta twice 82-6-8 and 77-5-8
George Chuvalo 59-15-2
Boone Kirkman 22-1
Chuck Wepner 18-4-2
Some of these fighters might be well known but they were all skilled.Go to boxrec.com and check them out yourself.Foreman gets critized for fighting these people even though Foreman didn't have as many amatuer fights as Ali and was still learning for most of his whole first career and since he knocked out most of his opponents so quickly he never really learned anything.Joe Louis fought bum after bum and gets praised.Marciano fought bum after bum not to mention he isn't a heavyweight and would never last more than a round against fighters like Foreman,Tyson.Lewis, ect ect ect but Marciano is treated like a god here.
You will probably never see a fighter take 10 years off from boxing...come back at 38 and win the title again at 45 like Foreman did yet he probably gets put down more than any heavyweight champion in boxing history.I never could understand why.You should watch boxing and learn for yourself instead of judging a fighter based on some old school idiot like Burt Sugar who has his own biased views.Watch fighters with your own eyes.

Randy,
That was one heck of a great post for only being your 11th one!

I won't argue your points because I also have George in my top favorite fighters of all time. But, Ali is there also. So, I like both of them and my bottom line is Ali is ALWAYS given the credit, whereas only the die-hard boxing fan realizes just how good George was. And always will be to me.
(Sort of the same thing with Sonny Liston...also in my top fav's)

[butterfly1964]

1st Question.Why is it that every time some one here on at any other boxing forum mentions Foreman in a fantasy match up with a opponent who Foreman is clearly superior than you usually have him losing?Lets say it is a Foreman vs Joe Louis fantasy fight...one of the first things you will say is Foreman had no stamina in his prime so he would get tired and Louis would stop him after 4 or 5 rounds..First Foreman's record was 45-2 with 42 kos so only 3 men went the distance with him in his wins.So you dont know how bad or good his stamina was since he knocked out most of his opponents and he did it quickly and you can't base his 2 loses on stamin because they were more or less Foreman's ego that cost him both of those times.Nobody says since Ali was almost knocked out by the 180 pound Henry Cooper so every 180 pounder could do the same.Louis also had a fragile chin and pretty avoided any and all black fighters.The only black fighters i can name him fighting were Ezzard Charles a natural middleweight and Jersey Joe Walcott a 190 pound fighter and Louis lost 2 out the 3 fights they had.

2nd Question Why are the opponents Foreman faced in his 1st and second career put down but if Ali fought the same fighters he was praised for doing so?Foreman fought Chuck Wepner in Foreman's 3 pro fight and won in 3 while Ali fought him years after Foreman and had to go 15 rounds with him but when Foreman fought him he was a bum and when Ali fought him he was some tough world class warrior.Here is a list of some fighters Foreman fought past his prime and their records at the time he faced them.

Shannon Briggs 29-1
Lou Savarese 36-0
Axel Schulz 21-1-1
Michael Moorer 35-0
Tommy Morrison 36-1
Pierre Coetzer 39-4
Alex Stewart 28-3
Evander Holyfield 25-0
Adilson Rodrigues 36-3
Gerry Cooney 28-2
Bert Cooper 20-4

Each fighter i name was better than Leon Spinks a bum and Ali lost to him probably both times when Ali was in his 30's but to make Ali seem great people will say he was past his prime.But Foreman was past his prime and was still able to beat most of the guys i named and the ones he lost to basically ran like women from him.In his physical prime he fought

Jimmy Young 20-5
John Dino Denis 28-0
Scott LeDoux 18-3
Joe Frazier twice 32-3 and 29-0
Ken Norton 30-3
Ron Lyle 31-3-1
Gregorio Peralta twice 82-6-8 and 77-5-8
George Chuvalo 59-15-2
Boone Kirkman 22-1
Chuck Wepner 18-4-2
Some of these fighters might be well known but they were all skilled.Go to boxrec.com and check them out yourself.Foreman gets critized for fighting these people even though Foreman didn't have as many amatuer fights as Ali and was still learning for most of his whole first career and since he knocked out most of his opponents so quickly he never really learned anything.Joe Louis fought bum after bum and gets praised.Marciano fought bum after bum not to mention he isn't a heavyweight and would never last more than a round against fighters like Foreman,Tyson.Lewis, ect ect ect but Marciano is treated like a god here.
You will probably never see a fighter take 10 years off from boxing...come back at 38 and win the title again at 45 like Foreman did yet he probably gets put down more than any heavyweight champion in boxing history.I never could understand why.You should watch boxing and learn for yourself instead of judging a fighter based on some old school idiot like Burt Sugar who has his own biased views.Watch fighters with your own eyes.

LOL, this guy is TommyHearns804 aka lmnoru aka gforeman1949, aka BigGForeman aka dave kreig on east side forums. He's been banned so many times for his outlandish and hateful posts yet he keeps coming back. Hopefully, the mods will find out about him quickly and he will be gone shortly.

[Sugarj]

George Foreman is one of my top five fave heavies of all time too.

I dont think we ever saw Big George's peak but think it would have come about 1980, when he would have had something between the patience of the older George and the power of the younger George.

Oh and I'll second the view that there was no problem with George's stamina, he had every right to be exhausted against Ali, he threw a shed load of punches over eight rounds for a heavyweight and he was still very lively against Jimmy young in 77 late in the fight. He obviously went the distance many times in his second career.

As for whether he'd have beaten Joe Louis, I think so, he had just about every physical advantage, you only have to watch Joe Louis being KOd by Schmelling or knocked down against Walcott, Braddock or even Tony Galento to know that it'd be likely that Foreman would keep him down.

[them_apples]

I totally agree with this thread, anyone who honestly thinks Joe Louis would win in a match up vs foreman is living in denial.

Louis had a sheltered career and is over hyped by most "hardcore" boxing fans.

[randy johnson]

Lol its good to see all of you who responded agreed with me besides Dempsey. Dempsey was a joke a bum who avoided fighting black fighters. I see why you are a fan of his "Dempsey" Maybe get a new favorite fighter and maybe you will get more of a rouse out of me.