Floyd Patterson vs. Sonny Liston

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

I'm thinking that Cus had once told Tyson that his worst nightmare would be someone like Liston or Foreman because Mike's MO was to come straight ahead. Maybe that is why Cus kept Floyd from fighting Liston for so long.

Maybe it's just me but Patterson didn't look as defensively skilled as Tyson, even though they were both trained by Cus. But yeah, I think a bigger stronger hevyweight would be a nightmare for Tyson just like an Ali would have. I also think Tyson would have been Foreman and Listons worst nightmare as well. No matter who it is, a big puncher is always going to be worried about another big puncher.

[them_apples]

I'm thinking that Cus had once told Tyson that his worst nightmare would be someone like Liston or Foreman because Mike's MO was to come straight ahead. Maybe that is why Cus kept Floyd from fighting Liston for so long.

I heard Foreman would be a bad match up, but I never heard Liston? My only reason being is Tyson was a better version of Liston.

I also don't think Foreman would have been "Tyson's worst nightmare" Foreman weighed the same as Tyson, but was taller (making him lanky) and Tyson stocky, but over all the size is the same. Foreman was to clumsy to take out a young Tyson. Patterson however, would have huge problems with Foreman.

Ali I could see trying to tie Tyson up constantly, but losing in a 12 round decision for running the entire time.

your best bet for a prime Tyson killer would be a large (240+ lbs) fighter with over all rounded skills (ex: late lennox lewis)

[Hawkins]

I heard Foreman would be a bad match up, but I never heard Liston? My only reason being is Tyson was a better version of Liston.

I also don't think Foreman would have been "Tyson's worst nightmare" Foreman weighed the same as Tyson, but was taller (making him lanky) and Tyson stocky, but over all the size is the same. Foreman was to clumsy to take out a young Tyson. Patterson however, would have huge problems with Foreman.

Ali I could see trying to tie Tyson up constantly, but losing in a 12 round decision for running the entire time.

your best bet for a prime Tyson killer would be a large (240+ lbs) fighter with over all rounded skills (ex: late lennox lewis)

Well I think the quote at the time, and this came from Don King's matchmaker Bobby Goodman, was that Tyson was "scared ****less of George Foreman" and that is why the fight never materialized.

But thats beside the point, my original reason for mentioning that was Patterson-Liston. Liston was like Foreman in the aspect that the ideal fighter to beat him was a tall fighter with good reach and movement - in essence a fighter that could fight from a distance and then move away. The smaller swarming types were made to order and that theory was proven correct.

[Jim Jeffries]

I heard Foreman would be a bad match up, but I never heard Liston? My only reason being is Tyson was a better version of Liston.

I also don't think Foreman would have been "Tyson's worst nightmare" Foreman weighed the same as Tyson, but was taller (making him lanky) and Tyson stocky, but over all the size is the same. Foreman was to clumsy to take out a young Tyson. Patterson however, would have huge problems with Foreman.

Ali I could see trying to tie Tyson up constantly, but losing in a 12 round decision for running the entire time.

your best bet for a prime Tyson killer would be a large (240+ lbs) fighter with over all rounded skills (ex: late lennox lewis)

So you have a prime Tyson beating primes Ali, Liston and Foreman but losing to the greatest of all time: Buster Douglas.

[Hawkins]

So you have a prime Tyson beating primes Ali, Liston and Foreman but losing to the greatest of all time: Buster Douglas.

Well I think there are two types of fighters that would have beaten a prime Tyson. First a big strong puncher who would rain down the pain when Tyson came inside to set up his combinations. Hard punchers like Foreman, who also had a jackhammer of a jab, would have been classic at this. Those big shots would keep Tyson off balance and ripe for the others that would follow.

Foreman wouldn't need to land a shot on the jaw to knock him off balance, just as long as he was throwing Tyson would feel the power.

Second, someone who shows no fear and comes at Tyson. Boxes him and counter punches him and isn't intimidated.

Buster had a grand game plan that night, but if the Tyson of the Berbick fight had shown up it may have been a different ball game.

[Jim Jeffries]

Well I think there are two types of fighters that would have beaten a prime Tyson. First a big strong puncher who would rain down the pain when Tyson came inside to set up his combinations. Hard punchers like Foreman, who also had a jackhammer of a jab, would have been classic at this. Those big shots would keep Tyson off balance and ripe for the others that would follow.

Foreman wouldn't need to land a shot on the jaw to knock him off balance, just as long as he was throwing Tyson would feel the power.

Second, someone who shows no fear and comes at Tyson. Boxes him and counter punches him and isn't intimidated.

Buster had a grand game plan that night, but if the Tyson of the Berbick fight had shown up it may have been a different ball game.

I totally agree with your assessment of a Tyson-Foreman matchup, and in no way do I put Buster Douglas on the level of Tyson, though I do give him credit for fighting one hell of a fight that night. Foreman, Liston, and a post-Emanuel Steward Lewis, I would have bet money on against Tyson, though he presents a hard night for pretty much everyone else.

[Hawkins]

I totally agree with your assessment of a Tyson-Foreman matchup, and in no way do I put Buster Douglas on the level of Tyson, though I do give him credit for fighting one hell of a fight that night. Foreman, Liston, and a post-Emanuel Steward Lewis, I would have bet money on against Tyson, though he presents a hard night for pretty much everyone else.

Plus with Foreman and Liston the intimidation factors would not work. I think it would work in reverse actually had they fought Tyson. I think Tyson would be the one intimidated.

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

Plus with Foreman and Liston the intimidation factors would not work. I think it would work in reverse actually had they fought Tyson. I think Tyson would be the one intimidated.

I think in that situation, they all would have been scared.

[Hawkins]

I think in that situation, they all would have been scared.

Nah, not with Foreman or Liston. They were the originators of the intimidation factor in the modern era.

[The Noose]

I'm not taking anything away from Floyd. I'm just shocked that alot of people were suprised that Floyd got dominated like he did. It doesn't take a boxing mastermind to look at Floyd's style and see where he is susceptible against anyone who has decent fundamentals and a good punch.

Floyd was made to order to be demolished by Liston.

I'm not sure how accurate they are, but the betting odds I found were :

Patterson-Liston I - Liston was a 9-3 favorite.
Patterson-Liston II - Liston was a 5-1 favorite.

In hindsight its easy to see Liston dominating Patterson. I dont think its ever as easy before a fight. Especially not in that devastating fashion.

Im sure many people thought Patterson had the ability, speed and power to make it a real fight. Even after the Liston fight Patterson fought some big punchers and did well.
Who simply walks through the heavyweight champion? It took Tyson 2 rounds to stop Berbick.
To win the title in a matter of seconds, is simply awesome. Liston did it twice. It was probably more devastating than any of Tysons wins.