A Couple of Jack Johnson questions

[travestyny]

- -U @U cut & pasty finest.

JJ $30k figure completely arbitrary post Burns win eliminates most every contender, don't it?

Only the huge draw of JJJeffries made him his $ and reputation that he steadily defiled during his reign.

Had he an ounce of honor(not!) he'd have challenged Sam as the winner of his defrocked belt.

It didn't eliminate Jack Johnson when it was offered to Tommy Burns.

[cfang]

Dempsey didn't take on the best of his era. In his defences he fought lt heavies and guys hed already beaten. He didnt fight wills or greb, the two best of his reign. Before that he didnt fight langford. He didnt fight Godfrey either. His title reign is quite unimpressive. Johnson at least fought everyone before he was champ.

To pretend like their legacies are similar or it's mysterious why folks would give Dempsey more grief over ducking than Johnson is really, really, intellectually disingenuous.

Jack Johnson is remembered for taking on all challengers? That's what his legacy is? Him a mankiller?

Those two lines are enough right? We both know what my point is already.

Jack Johnson upholding the colorline is a bit of trivia info everyone knows.

Jack Dempsey's legacy is not overcoming odds or fighting against an unfair system that against him for reasons he can not change. His legacy is very much taking one the best of his era and absolutely obliterating them.

Johnson doesn't take much hit because if you were looking up to Johnson as some kind of takes on all challengers type you're an extremely rare sort.

Conversely, seeing Dempsey as a takes on all challengers type is the norm and obviously finding out he did not is far, far, far more disappointing than finding out Johnson was selfish and looked out for his own best interest.

Duh.

[Marchegiano]

Dempsey didn't take on the best of his era. In his defences he fought lt heavies and guys hed already beaten. He didnt fight wills or greb, the two best of his reign. Before that he didnt fight langford. He didnt fight Godfrey either. His title reign is quite unimpressive. Johnson at least fought everyone before he was champ.

Great post bud.

[Marchegiano]

Neither Dempsey nor Johnson ducked. Johnson signed to fight Langford 3 times. Twice the bout fell through due to promoters being unable to come up with $. The other occasion Johnson was convicted of Mann act violations, left the country, and the bout was sc****d. Johnson’s only stipulation was that he received his going rate of $30,000 for a title bout. As per Rickard a bout between two black fighters “would not draw flies”. Hence the difficulty making the bout occur.

No black man was going to fight for the heavyweight championship with the spectra of the race riots after Johnson beat Jeffries on everyone’s mind especially the government of that time. This is why no black man had a shot at the title until Louis in 1937 over a decade later.

I don't mean this as argumentatively.

Why is boxing history so US-centric? Clearly the French were less opposed. What makes the Euro fan base unimportant?

[QueensburyRules]

Dempsey didn't take on the best of his era. In his defences he fought lt heavies and guys hed already beaten. He didnt fight wills or greb, the two best of his reign. Before that he didnt fight langford. He didnt fight Godfrey either. His title reign is quite unimpressive. Johnson at least fought everyone before he was champ.

- -Jack fought who Rickard and Kearns put in front of him to finally legitimize boxing as a epic spectator sport.

Lost 3 years leaving his mentors to fruitlessly attempt to fight Wills who never fought Greb nor did Langford, Jeannette or Mcvey. He replaced that income with Hollywood where he stayed in sparring with Big Bill Tate in anticipation of Wills.

What's U excuse for failures to understand his era?

[travestyny]

- -Jack fought who Rickard and Kearns put in front of him to finally legitimize boxing as a epic spectator sport.

Lost 3 years leaving his mentors to fruitlessly attempt to fight Wills who never fought Greb nor did Langford, Jeannette or Mcvey. He replaced that income with Hollywood where he stayed in sparring with Big Bill Tate in anticipation of Wills.

What's U excuse for failures to understand his era?

Oh, I'm sure Dempsey tried sooooo hard to fight Wills. So hard that he broke a contract for $800,000.

Some would say that's all fine, but argue that Jack Johnson should have fought Langford for a fight that was made before he became champion....sharing a pot of about $10,000 between them. Nothing should have changed at all when he became champion.

Makes perfect sense.

[QueensburyRules]

Oh, I'm sure Dempsey tried sooooo hard to fight Wills. So hard that he broke a contract for $800,000.

Some would say that's all fine, but argue that Jack Johnson should have fought Langford for a fight that was made before he became champion....sharing a pot of about $10,000 between them. Nothing should have changed at all when he became champion.

Makes perfect sense.

- -U with two cents fer brains.

Broke Johnson was given $ after being given a payday by the Brits and then a down payment for the anticipated Langford fight so he could travel to down under where Burns had landed for a title fight. JJ took the $ and ran home after beating Burns, breaking his contract.

$800K, was that the $25 Judgement rendered by the court in one of the half dozen failed contexts to fight Wills?

I got some historic Fools' Gold 4 Sale at a bargain too jus fer U!

[travestyny]

- -U with two cents fer brains.

Broke Johnson was given $ after being given a payday by the Brits and then a down payment for the anticipated Langford fight so he could travel to down under where Burns had landed for a title fight. JJ took the $ and ran home after beating Burns, breaking his contract.

According to whom? He signed for the fight BEFORE becoming champion, and the fight was scrapped when Burns finally agreed to fight. The club itself had no problem with it, but wanted it postponed until May.

As far as JJohnson is concerned, he never signed another contract for May. Whether his former manager, Fitzpatrick, signed a contract is another story. Either way, why would Jack Johnson put up the championship for $5000, and apparently $4000 to the winner? That's less money than he made challenging for the championship.

$800K, was that the $25 Judgement rendered by the court in one of the half dozen failed contexts to fight Wills?

I got some historic Fools' Gold 4 Sale at a bargain too jus fer U!

$800,000 was the amount of money Dempsey left on the table when he ran away from Harry Wills.


Maybe you should learn to do some research and then I wouldn't have to fill you in with so much information.



So what is it? Johnson guilty for bailing on $4000 to make over 7 times more, and Dempsey innocent for bailing on $800,000 to make $30,000 less for the Tunney match. Tell me more.

[Marchegiano]

What's with trying to use Greb as a HW gatekeeper?

I'm curious, did Greb ever fight anyone over 200lbs?

[cfang]

I think the thing with greb is that despite him being smaller he was without doubt avoided by dempsey.

He (or rather his team) chose brennan, gibbons and miske as title challengers. Hed beaten two of them already, greb had beaten all 3 of them. Also greb got the better of dempsey in sparring. Greb was smaller but dempsey wasnt a giant either. Greb also beat tunney. He was definitely avoided.