Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[StarshipTrooper]

He was so ahead of his time it's unbelievable, the only knock I have against him is that he never defended the title against the best contenders out there.

He of all people knew the difficulties the black man faced in trying to get a shot at the title in a white mans world and I feel he should have defended against the top black fighters, he was treating them the same way he was treated himself.

Having said that I love him and how he did things his way, they couldn't keep him out forever. Reminds me in a way of Lennox Lewis and how because he wasn't American was never given the chances he deserved, but he persisted and eventually the top fighters had no choice but to fight him.

A remarkable fighter, and number three on my ATG list.

Poet

[SWEET SUGAR]

(1) Rocky Marciano
(2) Muhammad Ali
(3) Larry Holmes
(4) George Foreman
(5) Jack Dempsey
(6) Sonny Liston
(7) Joe Louis
(8) Joe Frazier
(9) Lennox Lewis
(10) Mike Tyson

[JAB5239]

A remarkable fighter, and number three on my ATG list.

Poet

Im curious, where do some of you guys rank Liston? He cleaned out the heavyweight division (Machen, Williams, folley, Harris, Valdes and others Im not so familiar with) long before he was given his shot because D'amato didn't want to fight him. He's basicly judged by many for his losses to Ali. But he most likely would have had a much longer championship reign had he been given the chance to fight for the title when he first deserved it. What do you guys think?

[StarshipTrooper]

Im curious, where do some of you guys rank Liston? He cleaned out the heavyweight division (Machen, Williams, folley, Harris, Valdes and others Im not so familiar with) long before he was given his shot because D'amato didn't want to fight him. He's basicly judged by many for his losses to Ali. But he most likely would have had a much longer championship reign had he been given the chance to fight for the title when he first deserved it. What do you guys think?

I rank Liston at number 6. I consider him a terrific fighter who, in his prime, was capable of getting a win over anyone on the ATG list. I've seen both his fights with Cleveland Williams, both Patterson fights, the Machen fight, and the Roy Harris fight. All showcase Liston at his best.

For the record, my ATG list is again:

1. Muhammed Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Jack Johnson
4. Jack Dempsey
5. Larry Holmes
6. Sonny Liston
7. George Foreman
8. Evander Holyfield
9. Rocky Marciano
10. Joe Frazier

Also those (in no particular order) who move in and out of my ATG list a regular basis:

Joe Walcott
Jim Jeffries
Lennox Lewis
Mike Tyson
Jim Corbett
Joe Jeannette
Harry Wills
George Godfrey
Peter Jackson
Sam McVey

Who's not on there:

Gene Tunny - Only a few Heavyweight fights, I rate him at Light-Heavy.
Ezzard Charles - Roughly equal number of Heavyweight and Light- Heavyweight fights, was at his best at Light-Heavyweight so I rate him there.
Bob Fitzsimmons - Was a terrific Middleweight but passed his prime when he lifted the Heavyweight title from Corbett. I rate him as a Middleweight.
Sam Langford - Fought opponents from Welterweight up to Heavyweight beat them. Welter was his natural weight so that's where I rate him.

Poet

[JAB5239]

I rank Liston at number 6. I consider him a terrific fighter who, in his prime, was capable of getting a win over anyone on the ATG list. I've seen both his fights with Cleveland Williams, both Patterson fights, the Machen fight, and the Roy Harris fight. All showcase Liston at his best.

For the record, my ATG list is again:

1. Muhammed Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Jack Johnson
4. Jack Dempsey
5. Larry Holmes
6. Sonny Liston
7. George Foreman
8. Evander Holyfield
9. Rocky Marciano
10. Joe Frazier

Also those (in no particular order) who move in and out of my ATG list a regular basis:

Joe Walcott
Jim Jeffries
Lennox Lewis
Mike Tyson
Jim Corbett
Joe Jeannette
Harry Wills
George Godfrey
Peter Jackson
Sam McVey

Who's not on there:

Gene Tunny - Only a few Heavyweight fights, I rate him at Light-Heavy.
Ezzard Charles - Roughly equal number of Heavyweight and Light- Heavyweight fights, was at his best at Light-Heavyweight so I rate him there.
Bob Fitzsimmons - Was a terrific Middleweight but passed his prime when he lifted the Heavyweight title from Corbett. I rate him as a Middleweight.
Sam Langford - Fought opponents from Welterweight up to Heavyweight beat them. Welter was his natural weight so that's where I rate him.

Poet

Thanks for the response Poet. We've got Liston pretty close together, I put him 8th. I didn't always have an appreciation for Sonny, but the more film I see of him and the more I study his career, the more I realizr how good a fighter he really was.
I do however think he was legitimetly beaten in bthe first Ali fight, and also believe he was really knocked down in the 2nd fight. I think he would have beat the count had Walcott not screwed it up. Hence, in my opinion neither fight was fixed. Your opinion?

[guzi815]

Hi everyone, just joined and I know this has probably been done a million times, but just letting everyone know what I think.

Top 10 Greatest Heavyweights of all-time

1> Muhammad Ali
2> Larry Holmes
3> Lennox Lewis
4> Joe Louis
5> Evander Holyfield
6> Jack Johnson
7> George Foreman
8> Rocky Marciano
9> Joe Frazier
10>Mike Tyson

Top 10 Favourite Heavyweight's of all-time

1> Larry Holmes
2> George Foreman
3> Muhammed Ali
4> Joe Louis
5> Mike Tyson
6> Rocky Marciano
7> Jack Johnson
8> Lennox Lewis
9> James J. Jeffries
10>Sonny Liston

Top 10 Worst Heavyweight Champions of all-time
1> Franceso Damiani
2> Corrie Sanders
3> Chris Byrd
4> Michael Bent
5> Nickolay Valuev
6> Lamon Brewster
7> Frans Botha
8> Greg Page
9> John Tate
10>Henry Akinwande

Top 10 Most underated heavyweights of all-time
1> Larry Holmes
2> Lennox Lewis
3> Gene Tunney
4> Ezzard Charles
5> Tim Witherspoon
6> Ken Norton
7> James J. Jeffries
8> George Foreman
9> Jersey Joe Walcott
10>Riddick Bowe
Feel free to get back I know many will disagree have Lewis 3rd and Tyson 10, so if you want to know just especially why I ask and I will explain my reasons

yeah man, you knew that was coming!! lol! ay, not for nothing but Lennox Lewis never unified the Heavy Weight Championship...for that very reason is why Iron Mike Tyson should be placed higher than alot of HW Champs!!

overall good list, I would add James "Bone Crusher" as Worst Champ...but James "Buster" Douglas held the HW Title for only 10 months, after beating Tyson!!

Larry Holmes held it the longest, so I most definately agree with that!!

[boxing myth]

do yall know anyone in dallas who wants to fight me heavyweight!?

[StarshipTrooper]

Thanks for the response Poet. We've got Liston pretty close together, I put him 8th. I didn't always have an appreciation for Sonny, but the more film I see of him and the more I study his career, the more I realizr how good a fighter he really was.
I do however think he was legitimetly beaten in bthe first Ali fight, and also believe he was really knocked down in the 2nd fight. I think he would have beat the count had Walcott not screwed it up. Hence, in my opinion neither fight was fixed. Your opinion?

Truth be told, I believe Sonny DID hurt his shoulder in the first Ali fight by swinging and constanly missing. He just couldn't hit the much faster Ali. I think under normal circumstances Liston may well have fought on with a hurt shoulder but he was demoralized by Ali and believed he couldn't win. So he bowed out with the injury. In the second fight Liston was clearly off balance when Ali landed the right hand and Sonny was PUSHED over by it rather than it being a clean knockdown. The problem was Ali refused to go to the neutral corner and Liston rightfully was not going to get up with Ali standing over him. When Walcott finally got Ali to the neutral corner and started his count, Sonny got up and resumed fighting. At that point Nat Fleicher jumped up and shouted to Walcott that Liston had been down for a ten count so Walcott waved the fight off and declared Ali the winner.

My problem with this is that I believe there should be no count UNTIL a fighter goes to a neutral corner. If the downed fighter gets extra time because his opponent doesn't go to the neutral corner then it's the other guy's own damn fault. Too bad, so sad. Go to the neutral corner next time. In my opinion no fighter should benifit from his own rulebreaking.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

do yall know anyone in dallas who wants to fight me heavyweight!?

Yeah: Your mother

Poet

[JAB5239]

yeah man, you knew that was coming!! lol! ay, not for nothing but Lennox Lewis never unified the Heavy Weight Championship...for that very reason is why Iron Mike Tyson should be placed higher than alot of HW Champs!!

Acually yes he did. He unified in the second Holyfield fight.