Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[-CANE-]

Just say it like it was - Buster Douglas was one of the laziest heavyweights of his era and I think he also suffered abit from the Riddick Bowe syndrome. You know couldn't get up from the table?

I love Mike Tyson but it's hilarious the links fans go to build his competition into the stratosphere in order to make him more than he was.

Believe it or not I love him too, one of my favourite fighters. I guess I try and look and things logically and can see his faults as well as his strengths.

Some so called fans cannot seem to do this for some reason

[Hawkins]

I almost forgot - the entire reason I visited this thread in the first place. I'm sure people with have issues with my list, but I stand by it nonetheless.

Top 10 Heavyweight Champions:

1. Joe Louis - 25 title defenses and the most dominant reign in heavyweight history. Plus you add in the social weight his reign carried and I don't see how anyone else could be considered for the top spot.

2. Muhammad Ali - First ever 3-time champ. Fought and defeated the toughest competition of any era. Unreal speed and skills at his peak. Plus his contributions to the social concious are almost unmatched.

3. Jack Johnson - Not a real big puncher but one of the first heavyweights to rely on boxing skill instead of bone crushing power and knockouts. He came along about 40 years before Jackie Robinson. Can you imagine the pressure of being the most hated man in America? Having the government re-write laws and enforce bygone laws in order to strip you of your title? Unreal. And aside from all of this he was able to keep competing at a high level.

4. Jack Dempsey - The first huge heavyweight draw. Relentless, tenacious and exciting. Was even more popular than Babe Ruth in his heyday. Truly brought the heavyweight championship to a new level.

5. Larry Holmes - The forgotten champion. Because he came along in the wake of Ali he is usually swept aside by most casual observers of the sport. Had the best jab, and some of the greatest boxing skills, in heavyweight history and fought everyone available. Truly underrated by most.

6. George Foreman - Greatest power puncher in the divisions history. Annihilated 2 greats of the game in Norton and Frazier. Limited overall boxing skills, but a true destroyer. Came back in the 90's. Used the power from the 1970's with a new styled mentality and regained a portion of the title.

7. Joe Frazier - Never a more determined or tougher fighter to lace up the gloves. When you faced Smokin' Joe you had better be prepared to go to war. Has a resume almost comparable to Ali. Faced anyone put in front of him. You'll not find a tougher more determined fighter in heavyweight history.

8. Rocky Marciano - Utterly relentless. Below grade boxing skills but made it up with an utterly-bottomless will to win and an unrelenting attacking. His Suzie Q right hand is one of the most devestating ever in the division. Oh yea, that little thing of retiring undefeated helps too.

9. Evander Holyfield - An undersized heavyweight competing with the behemoths of the 90's. Tenacious and fearless. Great boxing skill but loved to brawl. Former undisputed champ and 3 time holder of a portion of the title. A true throwback fighter in the modern era.

10. Ezzard Charles - The most overlooked and underrated heavyweight of them all. A legendary light heavy who moved up and won the heavyweight crown. A superb and slick fighter. Adapted a cautious style after killing a man in the ring but still was very effective. Defending his title 8 times.

[Hawkins]

Believe it or not I love him too, one of my favourite fighters. I guess I try and look and things logically and can see his faults as well as his strengths.

Some so called fans cannot seem to do this for some reason

I understand. Years ago when ********** first started up I was member of their boards and it was the same deal. Use unreal methods and ideology to build up Tyson and use the same ideology to tear down others.

I guess the devestating way in which he was defeated by an average fighter lends creedence to the mountain of denail for these cats. I never understood the crap about the long count either. If I'm not mistaken the ultimate discretion of the count belongs to the ref.

The lengths Tyson fans go to discredit that loss is amazing to say the least.

[StarshipTrooper]

Damn Hawkins, your list is VERY close to mine (posted earlier). Are we related?

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Johnson
4. Dempsey
5. Holmes
6. Liston
7. Holyfield
8. Foreman
9. Marciano
10. Frazer

Btw, I don't rate Charles at Heavyweight, but I think he was the best LIGHT-Heavyweight ever despite never winning a title. If I remember correctly he won 6 out of 6 against the legendary Archie Moore.

Poet

[Hawkins]

Damn Hawkins, your list is VERY close to mine (posted earlier). Are we related?

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Johnson
4. Dempsey
5. Holmes
6. Liston
7. Holyfield
8. Foreman
9. Marciano
10. Frazer

Btw, I don't rate Charles at Heavyweight, but I think he was the best LIGHT-Heavyweight ever despite never winning a title. If I remember correctly he won 6 out of 6 against the legendary Archie Moore.

Poet

Poet, I constantly re-evaluate my list. When I put Ezzard in the top ten sometimes I feel like I place him too high but on the otherhand when he is out of my top ten I feel I underrate him. I guess my overall respect and admiration for Charles wins out alot. He's one of those guys thats hard to rate correctly IMO.

I really respect your list because mine looks like that at times. It's just the more I learn and see about fighters I find myself going back over my list with a fine toothed comb. Personally I usually catch hell for not putting Lennox or Tyson in my top 10 but I just don't think they belong.

Hawk

[StarshipTrooper]

Oh yeah, I get the same heat. I usually rank Lewis 13 and Tyson 14 behind Joe Walcott at 11 and Harry Wills at 12. I refer to them as "near-greats", in itself no small honor, but insuficient for the die hard Lewis or Tyson fans.

Poet

[Hawkins]

Oh yeah, I get the same heat. I usually rank Lewis 13 and Tyson 14 behind Joe Walcott at 11 and Harry Wills at 12. I refer to them as "near-greats", in itself no small honor, but insuficient for the die hard Lewis or Tyson fans.

Poet

Tyson & Lewis usually hover around the same area for me too. It's a no-win situation with Tyson/Lewis fanatics because they won't listen to rationale or see any other viewpoint. Most of them anyway.

If I may pose a question...what led you to place Ali over Louis?

[StarshipTrooper]

Tyson & Lewis usually hover around the same area for me too. It's a no-win situation with Tyson/Lewis fanatics because they won't listen to rationale or see any other viewpoint. Most of them anyway.

If I may pose a question...what led you to place Ali over Louis?

While Joe Louis is my all-time favorite fighter, I rate Ali over him because of his blinding speed: Faster than anyone had ever seen at Heavyweight, and faster than anyone has seen since. Running the matchup on my computer and they come out 50-50, but the program doesn't account for speed advantage. Louis was really the total package it's just that his dominence in that one area, speed, gives Ali the advantage no matter who he's in against.

Poet

[Hawkins]

While Joe Louis is my all-time favorite fighter, I rate Ali over him because of his blinding speed: Faster than anyone had ever seen at Heavyweight, and faster than anyone has seen since. Running the matchup on my computer and they come out 50-50, but the program doesn't account for speed advantage. Louis was really the total package it's just that his dominence in that one area, speed, gives him the advantage no matter who he's in against.

Poet

I undestand. Sometimes I lean that way myself. But then i'll flip-flop. At times I think Joe's overall dominance wins out against Ali's physical edge. I go back and forth. I wish I could come up with one definitive list but have come to the conclusion that that is an impossibility.

I usually compare them as such when comparing them over one another :

Joe Louis - Power & Overall dominance vs. Ali - Blinding speed & Overall edge in competition faced. I think when comparing them those are the four things it comes down. For me anyway.

Ultimately, I guess, it's in the eye of the beholder on what is of the utmost importance when it comes to rankings. Like I've said I flip-flop and re-evaluate all the time.

[-CANE-]

I almost forgot - the entire reason I visited this thread in the first place. I'm sure people with have issues with my list, but I stand by it nonetheless.

Top 10 Heavyweight Champions:

1. Joe Louis - 25 title defenses and the most dominant reign in heavyweight history. Plus you add in the social weight his reign carried and I don't see how anyone else could be considered for the top spot.

2. Muhammad Ali - First ever 3-time champ. Fought and defeated the toughest competition of any era. Unreal speed and skills at his peak. Plus his contributions to the social concious are almost unmatched.

3. Jack Johnson - Not a real big puncher but one of the first heavyweights to rely on boxing skill instead of bone crushing power and knockouts. He came along about 40 years before Jackie Robinson. Can you imagine the pressure of being the most hated man in America? Having the government re-write laws and enforce bygone laws in order to strip you of your title? Unreal. And aside from all of this he was able to keep competing at a high level.

4. Jack Dempsey - The first huge heavyweight draw. Relentless, tenacious and exciting. Was even more popular than Babe Ruth in his heyday. Truly brought the heavyweight championship to a new level.

5. Larry Holmes - The forgotten champion. Because he came along in the wake of Ali he is usually swept aside by most casual observers of the sport. Had the best jab, and some of the greatest boxing skills, in heavyweight history and fought everyone available. Truly underrated by most.

6. George Foreman - Greatest power puncher in the divisions history. Annihilated 2 greats of the game in Norton and Frazier. Limited overall boxing skills, but a true destroyer. Came back in the 90's. Used the power from the 1970's with a new styled mentality and regained a portion of the title.

7. Joe Frazier - Never a more determined or tougher fighter to lace up the gloves. When you faced Smokin' Joe you had better be prepared to go to war. Has a resume almost comparable to Ali. Faced anyone put in front of him. You'll not find a tougher more determined fighter in heavyweight history.

8. Rocky Marciano - Utterly relentless. Below grade boxing skills but made it up with an utterly-bottomless will to win and an unrelenting attacking. His Suzie Q right hand is one of the most devestating ever in the division. Oh yea, that little thing of retiring undefeated helps too.

9. Evander Holyfield - An undersized heavyweight competing with the behemoths of the 90's. Tenacious and fearless. Great boxing skill but loved to brawl. Former undisputed champ and 3 time holder of a portion of the title. A true throwback fighter in the modern era.

10. Ezzard Charles - The most overlooked and underrated heavyweight of them all. A legendary light heavy who moved up and won the heavyweight crown. A superb and slick fighter. Adapted a cautious style after killing a man in the ring but still was very effective. Defending his title 8 times.

Hawkins - This is my updated list which I thought I would paste for you incase you haven't seen it yet. There is so many pages I don't expect someone to trawl through every single page and article.

It is different from my original list on the 1st page.
I think it still needs some more work on it and I need to add abilities in different categories and find a way of scoring each category.
I will paste this and then another paste will be how I actually scored the fighters in each category as fair as I could.
If you like I'll e-mail my spreadsheet to you with all my info on just pm me if you want to see it.

As I've said previously I think the reason all these lists are so different is because of the criteria used and what you base greatness on.
Here it is:-

I have now done my research on 16 champions to start off with.
I have taken into account their achievments as champions and done my list accordingly. Just because I have someone at no16 it doesn't mean I don't think they were not better or could not beat the fighters above them. This list is greatest champions on what they acheived and how they affected the sport. I have taken the following as my criteria:-
1>Total years as champions (Factual)
2>Number of defenses (Factual)
3>Number of times they became champion (Factual)
4>Quality of opposition (Subjective)
5>Impact on the sport (Subjective)

I have devised my own system for scoring points in each of the 5 catagories as fair as I could and then added up the points to find the greatest champion.
I was surprised at how my list had changed from the original.

My Original list:-
1> Muhammad Ali
2> Larry Holmes
3> Lennox Lewis
4> Joe Louis
5> Evander Holyfield
6> Jack Johnson
7> George Foreman
8> Rocky Marciano
9> Joe Frazier
10>Mike Tyson

My new greatest list of heavyweight champions:- (I will use the same system for the champions I have not yet included and will update my list at a later date)

1> Muhammed Ali
2> Joe Louis
3> Lennox Lewis
4> Larry Holmes
5> Evander Holyfield
6> Mike Tyson (scored same as Holyfield, but his 2 losses give EH 5th spot)
7> George Foreman
8> Joe Frazier
9> Jack Johnson
10>Rocky Marciano
11>Jack Dempsey (scored same as Marciano, but RM unbeaten so gets 10th)
12>Floyd Patterson
13>James J. Jeffries
14>Tommy Burns
15>Ezzard Charles
16>Sonny Liston