Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[hhascup]

[quote=The Iron Man;2689598]

from the 6th round on was, 11 (6 KO) - 2 (1 TKO-BY) - 1.

NOTE: You had only 4 KO's for him, RTD is also scored as a knockout (I am one of the editors on Boxrec so I know).QUOTE]

Tyson also won a fight via RTD so in that case we can add another KO to tysons name in the late fights.

I have to leave for a lecture now, but ill post some more on it later, Btw it was a very nice post by you.

Thank you! Your one of the very few people that I have debated that had said that, so I really Appreciate that, Thanks!

Tyson stopped the following in bouts that went into the 6th round:

(1) Jesse Ferguson in the 6th round
(2) Jose Ribalta in the 10th round
(3) Pinklon Thomas in the 6th round
(4) Tyrell Biggs in the 7th round
(5) Donovan Ruddock in the 7th round
(6) Brian Nielson in the 7th round

Who am I missing?

[-CANE-]

Interesting, BUT styles make fights and I really can't see Ali losing to Louis. Louis had trouble with boxers such as Conn, Farr, Charles & Walcott. Ali weighed approx. 20 to 40 pounds heavier then any of these and was even faster, both with his hands and feet. Even when Bert Sugar rated Louis #1, he said I am not saying that he would have beaten Ali, I am saying that he was the best overall.

I also think you under rate Tyson (215-220) a little. I don't think he would have too much trouble with small heavyweights that came to him, especially in the 1st several rounds. Rocky (5'10-1/4" - Mid 180's & a reach of only 68") didn't know how to back up, neither did Frazier (5'11-1/2" - 205-215) or Dempsey (6'1" - 185-192). Frazier would stand the best chance because he was closer to his size, weight and height. I also believe that Dempsey would have had a better chance then the Rock, again because of the size. Rocky also cut a lot easier then Frazier or Dempsey, and you would have to take that into account too, AND Rocky was also a somewhat slow starter. I know he had 11 First round knockouts, BUT 9 of them were against his first 14 opponents. Remember he was dropped by Walcott (1st round) and Moore (2nd round).

I am not saying that Tyson would beat all 3, BUT I am saying that they would have their hands full. The question would be, can they take Tyson into the later rounds, if they could, and that's a BIG could, then the tide would switch to them.

I can see where you are coming from Henry with Marciano,Dempsey and Frazier but I have to disagree with you as to who stood the best chance of beating Tyson. None of the three would want to back down that is for sure. And its like you said the question is could they take Tyson into the later rounds, I feel of the three it's Marciano who stands the best chance of doing this. Frazier and Marciano both started slowly, I think Joe probably started slower than Rocky. Frazier was susceptable to being stopped early on like in his fight with Foreman and I think Tyson would bring too much too soon for Frazier to handle, his recuperative powers were not that good. Demspey although the biggest of the 3 was too crude and also never had a granite jaw like Rocky and I feel Tyson would blow away Dempsey as quickly as Frazier within 2 rounds. Rocky on the other hand although a slow starter had the best chin of the three, he also had the best recuperative powers of the three as well something he would need against Tyson. Rocky would not back down or be pushed back like I think Frazier and Dempsey would be forced to. Rocky would take a hammering for a few rounds but would then start to come into the fight and relentlessy attacking Tyson and pushing him back. If Rocky doesn't get stopped by the ref or on cuts then I say he has a very good chance of wearing Tyson down and stopping him.

[hhascup]

basically Frazier was the better athlete and tyson was the more natural talent.

To be honest with you Frazier wasn't a good Athlete. I saw him years ago on a show that he had to lift weights, swim, run, etc. He lifted only light weights, ran slow and some people had to jump into the pool to save him as he didn't know how to swim.

[hhascup]

I can see where you are coming from Henry with Marciano,Dempsey and Frazier but I have to disagree with you as to who stood the best chance of beating Tyson. None of the three would want to back down that is for sure. And its like you said the question is could they take Tyson into the later rounds, I feel of the three it's Marciano who stands the best chance of doing this. Frazier and Marciano both started slowly, I think Joe probably started slower than Rocky. Frazier was susceptable to being stopped early on like in his fight with Foreman and I think Tyson would bring too much too soon for Frazier to handle, his recuperative powers were not that good. Demspey although the biggest of the 3 was too crude and also never had a granite jaw like Rocky and I feel Tyson would blow away Dempsey as quickly as Frazier within 2 rounds. Rocky on the other hand although a slow starter had the best chin of the three, he also had the best recuperative powers of the three as well something he would need against Tyson. Rocky would not back down or be pushed back like I think Frazier and Dempsey would be forced to. Rocky would take a hammering for a few rounds but would then start to come into the fight and relentlessy attacking Tyson and pushing him back. If Rocky doesn't get stopped by the ref or on cuts then I say he has a very good chance of wearing Tyson down and stopping him.

I have to disagree with you. Dempsey had a Great chin. He was stopped only once and that was when he threw the bout against Fireman Jim Flynn for food money. Dempsey also had a lot of quick KO's and against some of the best of his era, just look at his record.

Frazier was over matched with Foreman. If Rocky fought Foreman at that time, the same thing would happen to him. Frazier was knocked down twice against Bonavena and got up to win a decision. Remember only 2 men ever beat Joe as a Pro and they were 2 of the best.

Like I keep saying, I would pay BIG MONEY to see a round ribbon Tournament with Dempsey, Marciano, Frazier and Tyson.

[-CANE-]

To be honest with you Frazier wasn't a good Athlete. I saw him years ago on a show that he had to lift weights, swim, run, etc. He lifted only light weights, ran slow and some people had to jump into the pool to save him as he didn't know how to swim.

I don't want to put words into anyone's mouth, but he said better athlete not a great one, what I think he meant was stamina wise he could fight at a substained pace for longer I think that's what he was trying to say and I'd agree with him. Henry I'm not criticising you in any way, I totally respect you and your opinions and look forward to reading your posts more than many. This thread has got a lot better since you got involved and you have provided some excellent stats and points. I agree with you on alot of things although none of us can agree on everything thats what makes it all the more interesting. Please don't think I was criticising you or having a go because I'm not, sometimes we all misunderstand something someone is trying to say.

[-CANE-]

I have to disagree with you. Dempsey had a Great chin. He was stopped only once and that was when he threw the bout against Fireman Jim Flynn for food money. Dempsey also had a lot of quick KO's and against some of the best of his era, just look at his record.

Frazier was over matched with Foreman. If Rocky fought Foreman at that time, the same thing would happen to him. Frazier was knocked down twice against Bonavena and got up to win a decision. Remember only 2 men ever beat Joe as a Pro and they were 2 of the best.

Like I keep saying, I would pay BIG MONEY to see a round ribbon Tournament with Dempsey, Marciano, Frazier and Tyson.

Some good points. I just think personally Rocky has the best chin of the 3 and also the best recuperative powers that's all. That round ribbon Tournament you speak of would be awseome wouldn't it, just think if they were all around now and how much money they would generate. Mind boggling.

[hhascup]

I don't want to put words into anyone's mouth, but he said better athlete not a great one, what I think he meant was stamina wise he could fight at a substained pace for longer I think that's what he was trying to say and I'd agree with him. Henry I'm not criticising you in any way, I totally respect you and your opinions and look forward to reading your posts more than many. This thread has got a lot better since you got involved and you have provided some excellent stats and points. I agree with you on alot of things although none of us can agree on everything thats what makes it all the more interesting. Please don't think I was criticising you or having a go because I'm not, sometimes we all misunderstand something someone is trying to say.

I agree 100%

Frazier did pace himself better, mainly because he started slow and then increased the pace as the bout went on. Tyson gave everything he had in the opening rounds and had very little left after that.

[StarshipTrooper]

I'm shocked! An intelligent, non-angry conversation about Tyson that doesn't involve Versitile! Like Ali, Tyson tends to polarize and it's the extreme Tyson fans that tend to weigh in. Versatile is proof that you can be a Tyson fan without believing he's God: The problem is there's too few like him.

I find this whole conversation comparing Tyson and Frazier fascinating and both hurricane and hhascup making good points. It's interesting because when I first saw Tyson as an unknown fighting on ESPN my first impression was that he was a young Frazier. Of course he turned out differently but those were my impressions at the time.

Poet

[hhascup]

Some good points. I just think personally Rocky has the best chin of the 3 and also the best recuperative powers that's all. That round ribbon Tournament you speak of would be awseome wouldn't it, just think if they were all around now and how much money they would generate. Mind boggling.

See, if Rocky was around today, he would only be a small Cruiserweight. Let me ask you this, who was the best puncher Rocky ever went against.

Joe Louis was a Great puncher, BUT he was well past his prime when he fought Marciano. His record was 61-1 with 52 KO's in his 1st 62 bouts. In his last 9 bouts before he fought Rocky, Louis was 8-1 with only 3 KO's.

Archie Moore was also a Great puncher, BUT most of his KO's were against Middleweights and Light Heavyweights.

What I am saying is that Rocky never went against a puncher that was anywhere near the punching power of George Foreman.

[-CANE-]

Some good points Henry. I do think though that although facing Louis and Moore past their primes he still faced them and you'd have to agree that the last thing a fighter loses is his power. So he probably took their best shots just not as many as he would have done if they were at their peak. He also fought Walcott who while a very good boxer could **** a bit, although not as hard as Foreman and Tyson he still packed a wallop. Remember that punch that knocked out Charles that was one of the best KO punches in the history of the division.