Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[joseph5620]

That's correct. That doesn't change the fact that Parkinson's disease never showed up on Marciano.


Me too, you brought in the subject.



Maybe he was a better human and a better fighter than Ali


That's correct. But maybe La Motta was really able to take a punch and didn't care to show he had an "iron chin"

Also, let me add one thing: the main reason people considers Ali better than Marciano is the opposition he faced: Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Ken Norton... But let's remember that Ali had a considerable size advantage on Marciano: Rocky never fought over the 190 lbs... He often weighed just 180 or even less... Ali went on to weigh even 220 lbs... and he was often taller and heavier than his opponents.

Marciano fought the older Walcott but Walcot weighed a over 10lbs more than him. Joe Louis weighed 20lbs more than him at the time.

Ali beat Liston and Patterson, but Liston was 10 years older than him: a prime Liston could have knocked Ali out in in my opinion. Patterson was 8 years older and 15 lbs lighter than Ali...

So the opposition Ali faced was better than Marciano's but not enough to make him a greater fighter than Marciano. I'm not underrating Ali, I'm just recognizing Rocky his own credit.

You're really not worth responding to so this will be my last one. I'll end it by saying your comments about Ali "wanting" to get hit by the likes of Shavers, Liston, Foreman,or Frazier are just ignorant.

[Nick Name]

The best people on Rocky's resume were CW anyway. Charles, Moore, Walcott.


Walcott was a late bloomer as well so fighting him late isn't really a detractor.

Joe Louis was also quite a bit past prime. He was still a very good fight but, a shade of his former self.


Where do you consider Liston's prime? Liston always loses to Ali in my opinion.



Both were Undisputed HW Champion. Ali making 19 defences to Rocky's 4.
Ali fought a higher percentage of Top 10 opponents throughout his career than anyone in history and in a better era than Rocky.

Has great wins such as prime George Foreman, a win which decimates any on Rocky's resume.

Also did amazing past prime beating Norton and as I said earlier Foreman.

We all agree that Ali faced a better opposition. Yet he's got in his record two losses against Frazier and Norton, who both were in a lower class than Marciano. Let alone the latest losses against Holmes and Berbick (which still are a proof that Ali trespassed the border, while Marciano choose the right moment to retire), if Ali was able to lose against Frazier and Norton, how could he have beaten someone like Rocky? Well, anything can happen in boxing so Ali could have had an upsetting win, but I find it really hard to picture

So, let's get back to pure logic (the rest, as I said, is up for imagination and will never be unveiled): Rocky was a better fighter than Ali and that's out of argument (altho smaller he had better punching power, stamina and defense), but if according to your logic, Ali deserves to be ranked higher than Marciano due to his better resume, then Larry Holmes deserves to be ranked higher than both Ali and Marciano since he has a better resume than both of them.

[Nick Name]

You're really not worth responding to so this will be my last one. I'll end it by saying your comments about Ali "wanting" to get hit by the likes of Shavers, Liston, Foreman,or Frazier are just ignorant.

I never said he wanted to get hit, I just believe he relied too much on his chin and not enough on his defense.

[Nick Name]

No, no they didn't, Locche had his arms up as much as he had them down and please show me where Locche or Pep slip one punch and get hit by another, for every 1 you show me I'll show you 3 of them avoiding / blocking combinations. That's if the opponent has a chance too start a combo and they aren't already out of the way.

Locche liked too much to tease his opponent and he paid that habit by getting hit a little too often and unexpectedly.

[Nick Name]

Both took more punishment than Ali did. Marciano's nose was split in half by Charles and please show me any fight where Ali got hit as much as Louis did against Schmeling in the first fight.

Against Schmeling, Louis didn't take a beating because he was busy taunting and talking to his opponent, like Ali did against Frazier for example (that is a BAD habit for a boxer and Ali paid dearly for it)...
Let's put it this way: Ali showed a more solid chin than Louis, but Louis showed a more accurate and responsible defense with his chin always covered up by his left shoulder. Louis took a beating against legendary Max Schmeling who was one heck of a fighter at the time and by the way that was more of a psychological failure than anything: I believe he just adopted the wrong tactics because he didn't expect such a recklessly violent approach from Schmeling and was unable to respond: but he then recovered from that beating and made a superb comeback against Schmeling himself. Somehow like Ali did against Frazier: I'm not intentioned to make Ali look like a loser..
In the end the quality of Louis' opposition, the number of his title defenses combined with his technical and athletic skills are enough to rank him higher than both Marciano and Ali in my opinion.

As for he rest: how could Marciano take more punishment than Ali if he never lost a fight in his career?? Also, a punch on the nose is less damaging than a punch on the head: Ali had a pretty nose, and he never took a beating (he was too fast and good) but he took too many punches to the chin (blows to the chin rebound directly on the nervous system) and to the temples: even among amateurs I see a lot of boxers taking punches to the temple because they don't hurt immediately, but they are very dangerous. Also, Ali was known to have let his sparring partner beat hard on him to get used to the real-fight bruise. That was also probably a mistake of his.

Bottom line - I don't wanna let you guys down so I'll give you this: Marciano might have been a better fighter than ali, but Ali was the prettiest heavyweight ever to step in a ring!!

[SBleeder]

We all agree that Ali faced a better opposition. Yet he's got in his record two losses against Frazier and Norton, who both were in a lower class than Marciano. Let alone the latest losses against Holmes and Berbick (which still are a proof that Ali trespassed the border, while Marciano choose the right moment to retire), if Ali was able to lose against Frazier and Norton, how could he have beaten someone like Rocky? Well, anything can happen in boxing so Ali could have had an upsetting win, but I find it really hard to picture

Marciano isn't better than Joe Frazier in ANY category except possibly chin. Frazier is bigger, faster, stronger, has better footwork, had stamina and heart equal to Marciano, and hit every bit as hard.

[SBleeder]

Against Schmeling, Louis didn't take a beating because he was busy taunting and talking to his opponent, like Ali did against Frazier for example (that is a BAD habit for a boxer and Ali paid dearly for it)...
Let's put it this way: Ali showed a more solid chin than Louis, but Louis showed a more accurate and responsible defense with his chin always covered up by his left shoulder. Louis took a beating against legendary Max Schmeling who was one heck of a fighter at the time and by the way that was more of a psychological failure than anything: I believe he just adopted the wrong tactics because he didn't expect such a recklessly violent approach from Schmeling and was unable to respond: but he then recovered from that beating and made a superb comeback against Schmeling himself. Somehow like Ali did against Frazier: I'm not intentioned to make Ali look like a loser..
In the end the quality of Louis' opposition, the number of his title defenses combined with his technical and athletic skills are enough to rank him higher than both Marciano and Ali in my opinion.

As for he rest: how could Marciano take more punishment than Ali if he never lost a fight in his career?? Also, a punch on the nose is less damaging than a punch on the head: Ali had a pretty nose, and he never took a beating (he was too fast and good) but he took too many punches to the chin (blows to the chin rebound directly on the nervous system) and to the temples: even among amateurs I see a lot of boxers taking punches to the temple because they don't hurt immediately, but they are very dangerous. Also, Ali was known to have let his sparring partner beat hard on him to get used to the real-fight bruise. That was also probably a mistake of his.

Bottom line - I don't wanna let you guys down so I'll give you this: Marciano might have been a better fighter than ali, but Ali was the prettiest heavyweight ever to step in a ring!!

If you've actually seen Louis-Schmeling I (or even read about it), you'd see that it was a defensive lapse on Louis' end that allowed Maxie to continually pop him with the right hand.

[Barn]

We all agree that Ali faced a better opposition. Yet he's got in his record two losses against Frazier and Norton, who both were in a lower class than Marciano. Let alone the latest losses against Holmes and Berbick (which still are a proof that Ali trespassed the border, while Marciano choose the right moment to retire), if Ali was able to lose against Frazier and Norton, how could he have beaten someone like Rocky? Well, anything can happen in boxing so Ali could have had an upsetting win, but I find it really hard to picture

So, let's get back to pure logic (the rest, as I said, is up for imagination and will never be unveiled): Rocky was a better fighter than Ali and that's out of argument (altho smaller he had better punching power, stamina and defense), but if according to your logic, Ali deserves to be ranked higher than Marciano due to his better resume, then Larry Holmes deserves to be ranked higher than both Ali and Marciano since he has a better resume than both of them.

How does Marciano beat Ali after he goes tooth and nail with La Starza.

And you seem to be forgetting, firstly: that was not a prime version of Ali and secondly he avenged both losses twice.

Holmes doesn't have a better resume than Ali...

[Barn]

Against Schmeling, Louis didn't take a beating because he was busy taunting and talking to his opponent, like Ali did against Frazier for example (that is a BAD habit for a boxer and Ali paid dearly for it)...
Let's put it this way: Ali showed a more solid chin than Louis, but Louis showed a more accurate and responsible defense with his chin always covered up by his left shoulder. Louis took a beating against legendary Max Schmeling who was one heck of a fighter at the time and by the way that was more of a psychological failure than anything: I believe he just adopted the wrong tactics because he didn't expect such a recklessly violent approach from Schmeling and was unable to respond: but he then recovered from that beating and made a superb comeback against Schmeling himself. Somehow like Ali did against Frazier: I'm not intentioned to make Ali look like a loser..
In the end the quality of Louis' opposition, the number of his title defenses combined with his technical and athletic skills are enough to rank him higher than both Marciano and Ali in my opinion.

As for he rest: how could Marciano take more punishment than Ali if he never lost a fight in his career?? Also, a punch on the nose is less damaging than a punch on the head: Ali had a pretty nose, and he never took a beating (he was too fast and good) but he took too many punches to the chin (blows to the chin rebound directly on the nervous system) and to the temples: even among amateurs I see a lot of boxers taking punches to the temple because they don't hurt immediately, but they are very dangerous. Also, Ali was known to have let his sparring partner beat hard on him to get used to the real-fight bruise. That was also probably a mistake of his.

Bottom line - I don't wanna let you guys down so I'll give you this: Marciano might have been a better fighter than ali, but Ali was the prettiest heavyweight ever to step in a ring!!

You can win and still take beatings, here's a list.

Frazier vs Ali I
Ali vs Frazier III
Corrales vs Castillo
Pacquiao vs Marquez
LaMotta vs Dauthuille.

[Nick Name]

You can win and still take beatings, here's a list.

Frazier vs Ali I
Ali vs Frazier III
Corrales vs Castillo
Pacquiao vs Marquez
LaMotta vs Dauthuille.

You can have a battered face and not have suffered much brain damage. You can have a rather clean face and DIE from brain damage like Benny Paret... What argument does that bring?