P4P hardest punchers of all time....

[Hawkins]

I understand everything your saying Hawkins believe me I do. I'm not some young punk who doesn't see things through thoroughly. I know can break down my anatomy of the sport without a problem. Your right about the older fighters having the benefits of what the newer ones have being the key to how they would do in these eras. If anything there was more toughness in the older eras as oppose to skill. When you think of it though, there is only so far toughness could get you, laying down the correct punch with the correct amount of force and any tough guy would turn into a *****. Its just the matter of skill level and the power to back it, that is how you stop a tough guy. Intimation played a bigger role back then because of how tough the fighters were, you couldn't knock them down with all you had so you fold up. I don't think people realize if your not mentally fit your not going to make it and you can lose this mental control at any time. One punch is all it takes to ends things if you have that one punch.

In all honesty I get what your saying I just don't really agree with your assessment of it!

The size and speed of the newer guys aside, I truly think the older guys were far better and more experienced on a whole. And I say this becayuse they fought alot more and alot more often. You can't compare someone in experience when at 25 one has 30 fights and one has 90 fights. I mean truthfully there is no comparison.

One thing I do not like about today's fighter are that most of them are so protected and rarely fight the best opposition available instead focusing on one of the dozens of alphabet titles floating around. Todays guys are coddled to the point its sickening. The older guys had to fight the best if they wanted to make the best money. Today any club fighter can have an ABCDEF belt and thats mostly all that matters so they can promote a PPV as a world title fight.

Anyways, I digress. I see where you're coming from but in the end its all just a matter of preference.

Hawk

[metalinmybrain]

The size and speed of the newer guys aside, I truly think the older guys were far better and more experienced on a whole. And I say this becayuse they fought alot more and alot more often. You can't compare someone in experience when at 25 one has 30 fights and one has 90 fights. I mean truthfully there is no comparison.

One thing I do not like about today's fighter are that most of them are so protected and rarely fight the best opposition available instead focusing on one of the dozens of alphabet titles floating around. Todays guys are coddled to the point its sickening. The older guys had to fight the best if they wanted to make the best money. Today any club fighter can have an ABCDEF belt and thats mostly all that matters so they can promote a PPV as a world title fight.

Anyways, I digress. I see where you're coming from but in the end its all just a matter of preference.

Hawk

But again, I say skill over comes toughness and in all due respect that is what the older eras were based on toughness. When I think of Joe Louis, I think of a fighter who through combinations second to none, in that era (30's). If you look closely though, his combinations weren't that fast nor accurate as some of the ones you will see in the later eras of boxers. On Max Schmelling he throws a body shot then follows it with a hook to the head, in real time it took him about 2 seconds just to land those two shots. Most of the fighters back then relied on throwing one punch at a time, pacing the fight. Rocky Marciano a guy who couldn't fight on the outside so he would lean up on your chest in an era where this was allowed, he would perform a complete circle from head to knees then come up with a very predictable hook. This is what broke down most of his opponents, it wasn't skill it was toughness and the lack of skill in his opposition. Compared to fighters like Foreman Ali Tyson Holyfield Tua, guys that throw punches from every which way, guys that are light on their feet and show extreme movement. Any one of those guys would finish an older fighter because of how fast the job will get done. You speak of speed and size being the factor for the newer fighters but you also forget to mention that its all you would really need against the older fighters. I think right after the 50
s was the signal for the turning point in skill power speed talent in the boxing world. Although the mental physic to stay focused on the sport has diminished rapidly, starting from the later 90's. The sport of boxing has always progressed sense the turning point and is now and only now on it's first decline.

Your entitled to your opinion on things Hawkins but I'm sorry if I see things a bit different because I took psychology and majored in it!

Take care.

[Hawkins]

But again, I say skill over comes toughness and in all due respect that is what the older eras were based on toughness.

Let me pose a question then - How can you say it was based solely on toughness when some of the best boxing technicians ever came from the older eras?

Ray Robinson, Willie Pep, Billy Conn, Joey Maxim, Ezzard Charles and Charley Burley just to name a few....All of these guys were superb technicians in their day.

The older guys were tougher - but they weren't based solely around that fact.

[them_apples]

Let me pose a question then - How can you say it was based solely on toughness when some of the best boxing technicians ever came from the older eras?

Ray Robinson, Willie Pep, Billy Conn, Joey Maxim, Ezzard Charles and Charley Burley just to name a few....All of these guys were superb technicians in their day.

The older guys were tougher - but they weren't based solely around that fact.

those guys are nothing interesting anymore, many boxers have bested there styles and improved on it. (no disrespect, only comparison)

You say they have more experience, actually they have more "pro fights" but all boxers from the 70's and up still sparred every day with even ex boxers (aka foreman sparred with Liston, Tyson sparred with Lewis) all in all they get the same amount of "fight time" just in different places.

[Hawkins]

those guys are nothing interesting anymore, many boxers have bested there styles and improved on it. (no disrespect, only comparison)

You say they have more experience, actually they have more "pro fights" but all boxers from the 70's and up still sparred every day with even ex boxers (aka foreman sparred with Liston, Tyson sparred with Lewis) all in all they get the same amount of "fight time" just in different places.

With all due respect sparring is not the same as an actual fight.

[metalinmybrain]

Let me pose a question then - How can you say it was based solely on toughness when some of the best boxing technicians ever came from the older eras?

Ray Robinson, Willie Pep, Billy Conn, Joey Maxim, Ezzard Charles and Charley Burley just to name a few....All of these guys were superb technicians in their day.

The older guys were tougher - but they weren't based solely around that fact.

Hawkins how big were those guys? We are talking about the heavyweight division. Well at least I am. Allot of the lighter weight classes back then showed extreme talent and durability, why do you think Sugar Ray Robinson is the toughest son of a ***** around. He had extreme skill and raw talent with the toughness of a gladiator trying to conquer all in front of him. It takes tremendous skill and power to generate knockouts everyone knows that. Compared to the eras of before in the heavyweight division, there have been more knockouts in the heavyweight division. 20's 30's 40's 50's compared to 60's 70's 80's 90's the newer generation created more knockouts there for having the better line up off skill and raw power.

I'm not basing the heavyweight divisions of those earlier eras solely on toughness but it is what gave that era any success. Later on it became boring to witness 12 to 15 even 20 rounds and up fights people wanted knockouts and the sport of boxing later committed to having the best of that desire. Knockouts are what the people really want and the earlier eras didn't have as much as the later ones. Sorry.

[metalinmybrain]

With all due respect sparring is not the same as an actual fight.

In all due respect if most certainly can play the same role as a real fight. No one going into any type of fight wants to be humiliated and lose. Tyson sparing against Lewis was something spectacular. Lewis had no answer for what Tyson brought to the table and it is only obvious that he didn't have it anymore when Lewis faced him in the pro ring for the first time. Depending on the situation a sparring match could mean the world to any fighter who doesn't want to lose even in a sparring ring. There is allot more pressure applied in a pro fight there for making it more liable for the boxer to freeze up or lose focus and concentration. It happens all the time Hawkins!

[Hawkins]

those guys are nothing interesting anymore, many boxers have bested there styles and improved on it. (no disrespect, only comparison)

With all due respect they are very interesting'. Besides, I beg to differ. There has yet to be anyone best the style of Ray Robinson. He stands alone at the top of the heap.

[Hawkins]

In all due respect if most certainly can play the same role as a real fight. No one going into any type of fight wants to be humiliated and lose. Tyson sparing against Lewis was something spectacular. Lewis had no answer for what Tyson brought to the table and it is only obvious that he didn't have it anymore when Lewis faced him in the pro ring for the first time. Depending on the situation a sparring match could mean the world to any fighter who doesn't want to lose even in a sparring ring. There is allot more pressure applied in a pro fight there for making it more liable for the boxer to freeze up or lose focus and concentration. It happens all the time Hawkins!

Most sparring partners these days aren't trying to knock your head off. Most are their to play a certain role and emulate the style of an opponet you are going to face.

Sparring can never be compared to an actual fight, besides that wouldn't prove anything because the older guys sparred just as much.

[metalinmybrain]

Most sparring partners these days aren't trying to knock your head off. Most are their to play a certain role and emulate the style of an opponet you are going to face.

Sparring can never be compared to an actual fight, besides that wouldn't prove anything because the older guys sparred just as much.

Back to the subject of this thread Hawkins, OK! Now, who are the pound for pound hardest punchers of all time? Mike Tyson at number one for me.