Deaths in Boxing-What happens to the winner?

[Maxie's Gal]

Baer

A few examples of the changed careers of fighters involed in ring deaths.

Max Baer-Never lost his killer instinct and desire to hurt a man in the ring after his opponent died.

Maybe when you kill someone in the ring you no longer have the heart to hurt someone anymore. Not only does it take all of your opponent away, a part of you goes with him I think.

If the last paragraph are your own words, you stated it quite eloquently. Please apply them to Max Baer, then go to my website, specifically:

http://www.maxbaer.org/theman.html
http://www.maxbaer.org/faqs.html

While 'Cinderella Man' was a fantastic movie, to quote Max Jr. "the only thing they got right in that movie was that my father was a boxer."

Thanks,
Cat
www.maxbaer.org

[CletusVanDamme]

If the last paragraph are your own words, you stated it quite eloquently. Please apply them to Max Baer, then go to my website, specifically:

http://www.maxbaer.org/theman.html
http://www.maxbaer.org/faqs.html

While 'Cinderella Man' was a fantastic movie, to quote Max Jr. "the only thing they got right in that movie was that my father was a boxer."

Thanks,
Cat
www.maxbaer.org

I meant it as a good thing that he didn't lose his killer instinct no disrespect intended. I know lots of Max Baer and the portrayal of him in the movie Cinderella man was laughable and I didn't watch it more than once. I told others who asked me about it about the true Happy go lucky Max Baer the Playboy not the beast he was made out to be. Those were my own words though. If he was more vicious than the Carnera fight, wow that would be scary.

[CletusVanDamme]

If the last paragraph are your own words, you stated it quite eloquently. Please apply them to Max Baer, then go to my website, specifically:

http://www.maxbaer.org/theman.html
http://www.maxbaer.org/faqs.html

While 'Cinderella Man' was a fantastic movie, to quote Max Jr. "the only thing they got right in that movie was that my father was a boxer."

Thanks,
Cat
www.maxbaer.org

I edited the first post and sited my mistake after reading the two links you sent. Thank you and again I apologize. I based my writing on memory and opinion only. I didn't take into account the fighters words, and only based my thread on post performances.

[AJ53]

I edited the first post and sited my mistake after reading the two links you sent. Thank you and again I apologize. I based my writing on memory and opinion only. I didn't take into account the fighters words, and only based my thread on post performances.

lupe pintor said in a later documentary that i have watched that his only regret in the ring was what had happened to johnny owens.
and i dont think that he meant the fans urinating in beer cups and throwing them over the challengers lifeless body as he was strechered out of the arena.
some 20 odd years after the fight he could barely face his johnny's mother and cried in apology to his father about what had happenened,
even though both fighters were world class warriors plying their trade on even terms.
plus it was later proven that johnny suffered from a rare condition that made his skill abnormally thin,
lupe mintor has shown very much the demons that haunt fighters who kill in the ring.

when two men go into battle at the highest level both have to be willing to give everything to come out the victor even if that means his life.
but i doubt that any fighter ever has enough time in the fuelled filled training weeks to mentally prepare for the other fighter to suffer such an outcome.
imo it has to scar a fighter as a human being it must bring the reality of the sport right to his front door, his dreams and overall his person in or out of the ring.

[CletusVanDamme]

lupe pintor said in a later documentary that i have watched that his only regret in the ring was what had happened to johnny owens.
and i dont think that he meant the fans urinating in beer cups and throwing them over the challengers lifeless body as he was strechered out of the arena.
some 20 odd years after the fight he could barely face his johnny's mother and cried in apology to his father about what had happenened,
even though both fighters were world class warriors plying their trade on even terms.
plus it was later proven that johnny suffered from a rare condition that made his skill abnormally thin,
lupe mintor has shown very much the demons that haunt fighters who kill in the ring.

when two men go into battle at the highest level both have to be willing to give everything to come out the victor even if that means his life.
but i doubt that any fighter ever has enough time in the fuelled filled training weeks to mentally prepare for the other fighter to suffer such an outcome.
imo it has to scar a fighter as a human being it must bring the reality of the sport right to his front door, his dreams and overall his person in or out of the ring.

Yeah I have read about Pintor meeting with the family a few years back at the unvailing of Owens statue. Great post my friend.

[Maxie's Gal]

=)

I edited the first post and sited my mistake after reading the two links you sent. Thank you and again I apologize. I based my writing on memory and opinion only. I didn't take into account the fighters words, and only based my thread on post performances.

I meant it as a good thing that he didn't lose his killer instinct no disrespect intended. I know lots of Max Baer and the portrayal of him in the movie Cinderella man was laughable and I didn't watch it more than once. I told others who asked me about it about the true Happy go lucky Max Baer the Playboy not the beast he was made out to be. Those were my own words though. If he was more vicious than the Carnera fight, wow that would be scary.

I might have come across as pretty harsh, when I meant to be passionate in my convictions instead. I've just taken on this one-woman crusade to clear up misconceptions and myths about Baer and I get pretty hot under the collar sometimes. My apologies if you felt attacked.

I think, though I haven't researched other fighters to the extent I have Baer, one of the oddities that set him apart from other fighters was his hatred of boxing. The main reasons he fought were to support his lavish lifestyle and his craving for the limelight. He failed to train so often because he didn't take the sport seriously and he clowned so much because he was trying to distract the crowd from wanting him to 'kill'. After Campbell, unless his entourage could in effect brainwash him into becoming emotionally involved about an upcoming bout, he got distracted. So when he fought Schmeling, it was hatred, when he fought Carnera it was lack of respect, when he fought Louis it was fear. After Louis, I think he definitely did try to take the sport seriously, not to be viewed as a serious boxer necessarily, but so that people wouldn't think he was a quitter, and therefore less of a man.

After looking at your list, it would interesting, if it doesn't exist already, to compile a book about the lasting effects on fighters who have killed opponents in the ring. Though I remember a quote from a boxer in a court room, "did you know you had him in trouble." and his response was a cool "they pay me to get him in trouble." Some handle it better than others. Baer didn't handle it well at all.

I agree too, if Campbell had never happened, (though others would argue Baer had that great right but didn't have the finesse or the tactics to succeed) Baer could have gone far in his boxing career, it would have been amazing to see.

Take care,
Cat
www.maxbaer.org

[American_Ninja]

I just saw Cinderella Man today. So reading the actual facts is quite interesting. They made Baer out to be a cold blooded killer.
After the Kim fight, Boom Boom Mancini was never the same.
He lost the 2 fights to Livingston Bramble, no intensity like before.

Great thread Cletus.

[QueensburyRules]

The Mancini/Kim fight is particularly serious with the ref and his mother killing themselves as well. I have read that he was very effected by the death of Kim, but havent seen his fights after it. Did he fight any different?

- - Prob the worst because it was such a toe to toe classic ruined by unexpected tragedy.

Luther McCarty the Mike Tyson of his day had JJOHNSON lined up for his next fight before collapsing without a punch landed by up and coming Arthur Pelkey a minute into a slow first rd.

Pelkey charged with murder racked up a fortune in legal fees before the case dismissed was a broken man from the gitgo to become a name for subsequent heavies to KO for their ledger.

Terrible justice in the fight game.

[QueensburyRules]

If the last paragraph are your own words, you stated it quite eloquently. Please apply them to Max Baer, then go to my website, specifically:

http://www.maxbaer.org/theman.html
http://www.maxbaer.org/faqs.html

While 'Cinderella Man' was a fantastic movie, to quote Max Jr. "the only thing they got right in that movie was that my father was a boxer."

Thanks,
Cat
www.maxbaer.org

- -Heh, Heh, you don't spit into the wind, tug on Supermans cape, so don't you dare go messing with Maxie's Gal!

[Willie Pep 229]

If the last paragraph are your own words, you stated it quite eloquently. Please apply them to Max Baer, then go to my website, specifically:

http://www.maxbaer.org/theman.html
http://www.maxbaer.org/faqs.html

While 'Cinderella Man' was a fantastic movie, to quote Max Jr. "the only thing they got right in that movie was that my father was a boxer."

Thanks,
Cat
www.maxbaer.org

You know a dead man's family can't sue for defamation unless they can should that the libel damages them as well.

To say something turned 180 degrees is an over used cliche, but this film created a 'Max Baer' that was the polar opposite of who the man was.

There is "theatrical licence" but stretching the truth for dramatic affect is one thing, to totally fabricate a character (of a man filled with hate) and then put a real man's name on it (a man filled with love) seems just wrong.

Too bad all those links are dead. I wonder why one of them has /****.html attached to it? LOL I wanted to find out.