Monzon & Hagler

[SABBATH]

And Monzon was bigger than all of Hagler's opponents except Hearns.

Fulgencia Obelmajias was pretty tall. I think Hearns does better against Monzon than he did gaginst Hagler as Monzon was more of a patient boxer. Hearns would compete better at long range than he did getting swarmed by Hagler.

[K-DOGG]

To be honest with you, when Griffith fought Monzon, he was well past his prime. Brisco had trouble with boxers such as Luis Rodriguez, Valdez, Griffith and he did loss to Hagler near the end of his career. Napoles, would be over powered by Hagler, as he was only a Welterweight. As far as Valdez goes, I can see him giving Hagler problems, but I just think Hagler was to good of a puncher and boxer for him, BUT of all Monzon's opponents, I believe Valdez would have given him the best bout.

Fair enough.

[K-DOGG]

Fulgencia Obelmajias was pretty tall. I think Hearns does better against Monzon than he did gaginst Hagler as Monzon was more of a patient boxer. Hearns would compete better at long range than he did getting swarmed by Hagler.

Forgot about Obelmajias; but I think Monzon would stop him....and I agree with you about Hearns.

[hhascup]

Fair enough.

I bring Emile Griffith's manager and the one that discovered him, Howie Albert to the Ring #8 meetings in New York every month. He also comes to everyone the the New Jersey Boxing Hall of Fame meeting.

He told me that he thought Monzon was overrated. He said if Emile was several years younger, he would have beaten him. In fact the 2nd bout was pretty close.

[The Surgeon]

No. What I mean is if Hagler fought in the 60's and 70's against Monzon's opposistion, how would he do...and vice versa?


...but yeah Hagler vs Monzon would be an instant classic, IMO.

Oh rite, well id think Hagler beats them all in Monzons era, which was a very good era! But i can see Monzon having real problems with The Hit man in Haglers era, infact id pick Hearns to win, SRL-dunno. Srl for the win too, **** it!

[Yogi]

In fact the 2nd bout was pretty close.

I've never understood that thinking myself, as I always thought that Monzon almost pitched a virtual shutout in their rematch. Granted a lot of the rounds were pretty close in that fight (which lacked much action save a couple of instances), but I thought Monzon did just enough to shade the vast majority of them save for a couple of rounds in the mid goings (from the 8th to 10th, or thereabouts) when Griffith finally landed a couple of good right hands that caught Monzon's attention...

Overall, I scored that one a very clear win for Monzon, 148-137.

[hhascup]

I've never understood that thinking myself, as I always thought that Monzon almost pitched a virtual shutout in their rematch. Granted a lot of the rounds were pretty close in that fight (which lacked much action save a couple of instances), but I thought Monzon did just enough to shade the vast majority of them save for a couple of rounds in the mid goings (from the 8th to 10th, or thereabouts) when Griffith finally landed a couple of good right hands that caught Monzon's attention...

Overall, I scored that one a very clear win for Monzon, 148-137.

The official scores were Referee: Piero Brambilla 147-145 | Judge: Karl Perpeet 147-144 | Judge: Raymond Baldeyrou 147-143

So Emile only won 3 rounds on all the score cards. If you go by rounds this is how the judges scored it:

5-3-7; 6-3-6; 7-3-5 So if you go by them, there were many close rounds.

I really can't complain about your scoring either, because you had Emile winning 2 rounds instead of 3 and had Carlos winning 13 (13-2). You just had all the close rounds going to Monzon, which is OK.

I had it a little closer then what you had, BUT I still had Monzon winning by a wider margin then the judges did.

[Yogi]

I think Hearns does better against Monzon than he did gaginst Hagler as Monzon was more of a patient boxer. Hearns would compete better at long range than he did getting swarmed by Hagler.

It's very likely that Hearns is more competitive with Monzon than he was with Hagler, but then again, if Tommy Hearns is in Monzon's middleweight era, I just don't see him getting by either Valdez or Briscoe...

Both knock Hearns out (or stop him, more accurately) before the fight reaches the midway point, in my opinion, and that's a strong opinion at that.

P.S. This ****ing server has ****** absolute **** as of late, and I think that'll just about do me for awhile.

[SABBATH]

It's very likely that Hearns is more competitive with Monzon than he was with Hagler, but then again, if Tommy Hearns is in Monzon's middleweight era, I just don't see him getting by either Valdez or Briscoe...

Both knock Hearns out (or stop him, more accurately) before the fight reaches the midway point, in my opinion, and that's a strong opinion at that.

I would STRONGLY oppose that viewpoint as I consider Hearns to be an ATG P4P fighter and a definite notch above Valdez and Briscoe.

[Orishaman]

Got this idea from someone else. Let's say Hagler fought in Monzon's era and Monzon fought in Hagler's.....who does better, who does worse, what do you see happening?

Damm dude...that;s a tofy.....Monzon , IMO, is the best MW ever end of the story, and he fought some great competition with boxers, and punchers yet he survived and won, he was a master boxer and can hit also, remember he had 59 KO;s....very deseiving boxers , smart....can take a punch.....anyone that took Bennie Briscoe (the best fighter at anyweight class not to be a title holder) punching power and get the W was a tofy....Hagler was a tofy too, can box, but at times not as smart as Monzon was, and that might be the difference between the 2 , which skills wise arevery close...Hagler had his share of lesser comp and so did Monzon.....

Big fights:

Monzon:

2-0 Rodrigo Valdez twice true MW
1-0 Danny Moyer-true MW
2-0 Nino Benvenutti- twice, true MW
1-0-1Bennie Briscoe- twice-true MW
1-0 Emil Griffith-twice- true MW former MW & WW champ
1-0 Mantequilla Napoles-WW

Not bad.....


Hagler:

1-0-1 Vito Antuiferno- twice true MW former MW champ
1-0 Alan Minter-true MW former MW champ
2-0 Mustafa Hamsho-twice -true MW
1-0 The beat Mugabi-true MW
1-0 Duran- WW, 1st MW fight
1-0 Hearns-WW, 1st MW fight
0-1 SRL- WW,1st MW fight..

So, I would say that long tall Carlos would have an easier time dealing with the JrMW and WW that challenge MMH esier than MMH would have dealing with strong true MW of the time...Bennie Briscoe v. Hagler prime for prime would ahve been one for the ages!!

Monzon would had faired better, exept maybe against Hearns...