** Top 10 HW's ATG...**

[K-DOGG]

Same as Foreman. Well if you count linear defenses in the mid 90s he had more, but that was because he was avoiding the top guys and fighting fringe contenders.

Liston only had one.

Exactly....which is why it's important, especially in the case of Liston, to look at all the contender they beat at the time in order to get an accurate view of how good or great they really were.

[brownpimp88]

Back when I 1st got interested in boxing, all the top boxing experts had Dempsey as the #1 Heavyweight of all times, a head of Louis, Johnson and Marciano, etc.

cuz dempsey was the guy they grew up watching, can you really name 100 boxers that are better than spinks, i dont think so.

[K-DOGG]

Now heres a Question for all u guys, espesially u henry : Do peeps rate fighters they saw in "THEIR" prime too highly? Like say in 40 yrs time will i be sayin the new Cat couldnt touch PBF? I know uz obiously werent around for Dempsey ect! But u get my Point. Feel free to shoot me down, its not sumthing i have a strong opinion on!

No, that's a fair question; and I would say nostalgia does play a role as much as fighter you actually see in your time. For me, the 1970's were great decade and like Yogi, I hold those guys pretty high; but have gottne better about keeping things in perspective and accurately comparing them with other greats across time....or so I like to think. My personaly Top 10 lists are alwyas in flux becasue there are so many things to consider and you always learn something new and overcome old biases.

[hhascup]

Now heres a Question for all u guys, espesially u henry : Do peeps rate fighters they saw in "THEIR" prime too highly? Like say in 40 yrs time will i be sayin the new Cat couldnt touch PBF? I know uz obiously werent around for Dempsey ect! But u get my Point. Feel free to shoot me down, its not sumthing i have a strong opinion on!

I have learned that most experts or so called experts will go with boxers that they have grown up with.

Years ago, people would say about Jack Johnson, that he is good but Sullivan was better. In the 1920's they said, Dempsey is the best out their, BUT Johnson would have made him look like an Amateur. When Louis was Champion, people said that Dempsey would have knocked him out. When Rocky was Champion, people said, Louis in his prime would have stopped Rocky inside of 5 rounds. When Ali became Champion, people said that he was good but would never hold up to Louis, Dempsey or Marciano.

Now we have the Holyfield's, Lewis's, etc., and there saying the same thing.

The statements I gave you came from going through old newspapers (Micro-Film) for many years. Like I have stated many times, a Great boxer today would have been a Great boxer in any era, and a Great boxer years ago, would have been a Great boxer today.

[The Surgeon]

No, that's a fair question; and I would say nostalgia does play a role as much as fighter you actually see in your time. For me, the 1970's were great decade and like Yogi, I hold those guys pretty high; but have gottne better about keeping things in perspective and accurately comparing them with other greats across time....or so I like to think. My personaly Top 10 lists are alwyas in flux becasue there are so many things to consider and you always learn something new and overcome old biases.

Good honest post, thanks K DOGG

[Yogi]

Well i was Yogi, I posted it to all peeps that are posting on this topic (Sum of the very best on the whole forum). Thanks for the answer, kinda get the feelin thats the way alot of peeps would feel and yeah it didnt hurt that it was widely perceived as the golden era of boxing!

I kinda just gave a basic answer to your question, my friend, but did you get the drift of it?

It's a bit tough to explain, but when you're a young teenager it's much easier to "look up" to the great fighters of the day than it is at my current age of 40. Actually, while I can certainly & very easily admire the skills of Hopkins, Mayweather, Jones, Pacquiao, Barrera, Morales, DLH, etc., I just can't "look up" to them anymore like I did with the good/great fighters of a time when I was much younger and when the fighters were "heroes" to me.

Yeah, it's tough to explain really.

[The Surgeon]

I have learned that most experts or so called experts will go with boxers that they have grown up with.

Years ago, people would say about Jack Johnson, that he is good but Sullivan was better. In the 1920's they said, Dempsey is the best out their, BUT Johnson would have made him look like an Amateur. When Louis was Champion, people said that Dempsey would have knocked him out. When Rocky was Champion, people said, Louis in his prime would have stopped Rocky inside of 5 rounds. When Ali became Champion, people said that he was good but would never hold up to Louis, Dempsey or Marciano.

Now we have the Holyfield's, Lewis's, etc., and there saying the same thing.

The statements I gave you came from going through old newspapers (Micro-Film) for many years. Like I have stated many times, a Great boxer today would have been a Great boxer in any era, and a Great boxer years ago, would have been a Great boxer today.

Cheers Henry for ur views

[The Surgeon]

I kinda just gave a basic answer to your question, my friend, but did you get the drift of it?

It's a bit tough to explain, but when you're a young teenager it's much easier to "look up" to the great fighters of the day than it is at my current age of 40. Actually, while I can certainly & very easily admire the skills of Hopkins, Mayweather, Jones, Pacquiao, Barrera, Morales, DLH, etc., I just can't "look up" to them anymore like I did with the good/great fighters of a time when I was much younger and when the fighters were "heroes" to me.

Yeah, it's tough to explain really.

No Yogi I hear u loud and clear bud! I Really looked up to RJJ, Tito and many others, im still at that lookin up stage! But i try hard to be as much of a fight fan as opposed to a fan of fighters! The fight Game on the whole and in general really

[K-DOGG]

I kinda just gave a basic answer to your question, my friend, but did you get the drift of it?

It's a bit tough to explain, but when you're a young teenager it's much easier to "look up" to the great fighters of the day than it is at my current age of 40. Actually, while I can certainly & very easily admire the skills of Hopkins, Mayweather, Jones, Pacquiao, Barrera, Morales, DLH, etc., I just can't "look up" to them anymore like I did with the good/great fighters of a time when I was much younger and when the fighters were "heroes" to me.

Yeah, it's tough to explain really.

No, I think you explained it perfectly. Ali was a hero of mine, so it's was very difficult for me to move him down to #2 on my list behind Louis. Emotion does play a powerful role, especially when you're younger....and quite often when you're older and won't give younger guys credit.

The thing that makes "ranking younger fighters" especially difficult for me is all the fights that dont' take place but should, such as Jones-Benn or Jones-Michelsewski..however you spell it. I was spoiled by Ali, Frazier, Norton, Foreman, Leonard, Hearns, Duran, etc. What does it say that Trinidad and Quartey never met or that Nunn never squared off against Jones.

Between Promoter disputes and alphabelt strippings, boxing has become a bit of a mess and you almost need a cypher to figure out what means what.

[The Surgeon]

No, I think you explained it perfectly. Ali was a hero of mine, so it's was very difficult for me to move him down to #2 on my list behind Louis. Emotion does play a powerful role, especially when you're younger....and quite often when you're older and won't give younger guys credit.

The thing that makes "ranking younger fighters" especially difficult for me is all the fights that dont' take place but should, such as Jones-Benn or Jones-Michelsewski..however you spell it. I was spoiled by Ali, Frazier, Norton, Foreman, Leonard, Hearns, Duran, etc. What does it say that Trinidad and Quartey never met or that Nunn never squared off against Jones.

Between Promoter disputes and alphabelt strippings, boxing has become a bit of a mess and you almost need a cypher to figure out what means what.

Ur right ofcourse, but just a quick point for u, not that its relevent but I met Benn in a Night club once and said that it was a real pitty he never got the Jones fight, and do u know what he said? Robo mate its the best thing that happenend in my career, he woulda killed me! The fact that Nigel Benn said MY name, i was on cloud9 for weeks!