Marvin Hagler > Roy Jones

[GEOFFHAYES]

You do realize that Jones is the bigger fighter?

Your joking, aren't you? Jones has a small skeleton, while Hagler has a big skeleton. Jones was roided up to get upto 168 and 175, and roided up to the gills to get upto 193.

Jones won the 1984 US Junior Olympics at BANTUMWEIGHT, was a featherweight in 1985 and a junior-welterweight in 1986.

Hagler was just made of oak.

[Shanus]

FAO, Geoff.. I'm impressed, I didn't know you knew so much about Hagler.

Hagler was the best Middleweight to step in the ring, ever.

[butterfly1964]

Your joking, aren't you? Jones has a small skeleton, while Hagler has a big skeleton. Jones was roided up to get upto 168 and 175, and roided up to the gills to get upto 193.

Jones won the 1984 US Junior Olympics at BANTUMWEIGHT, was a featherweight in 1985 and a junior-welterweight in 1986.

Hagler was just made of oak.

That doesn't mean he was on steroids. Ali was 180lb. in 1960, and was 210lb. in 1964, does that mean he was on roids?

[The Noose]

Watch any of Roy's fights and when he is cornered and the opponent (usually just that - an opponent) is close and on him, he looked utterly bewildered.. stretching his neck, turning his head, even closing his eyes.

Excellent posts.
But the one point above i disagree with.
Jones was way too easily pushed back, and looked very uncomfortable being rushed, but in the corner he looked quite at ease IMO.
He would let his opponent throw everything at him, and then start throwing very short fast counter hooks and uppercuts. Like he did against Sousa, Telesco and Brannon.

Griffin was smart in the sense he didnt just stay there, he threw his big body shots and then back away. But Jones was half asleep that night anyway. He only stepped it up later on and would have stopped him if he wasnt DQ.


But i agree with the rest. Hagler's brilliant southpaw style would have given Jones an awful lot of trouble.
The Harding fight is a great example. And Harding was literally nothing compared to Hagler. You cant compare wat Jones did to Hopkins with the perfect slick switch hitting of Hagler.
I dont think Haglers defense was 'airtight' at all. He took shots quite a bit. And Jones would connect.

I think it would be close. But ....
just watch Hagler's first defense against Fulgencio Obelmejias, who was 30-0 (28KOs). He was a tall rangy fighter with a great punch. Hagler starts off boxing him and its quite an even fight. But then in the 3rd or 4th round Hagler just turns into a pressure fighter. And its one of the most relentless displays of intense pressure ive seen. He just doesnt stop, breaks him up and knocks him out.
Hagler at his best. Its possible Jones would go the same way. "peeleft:

[Yogi]

That doesn't mean he was on steroids.

Jones tested positive before, Butterfly, for something called Ripped Fuel or something like that...That took place after the Richard Hall fight.

[Abe Attell]

Your joking, aren't you? Jones has a small skeleton, while Hagler has a big skeleton. Jones was roided up to get upto 168 and 175, and roided up to the gills to get upto 193.

Jones won the 1984 US Junior Olympics at BANTUMWEIGHT, was a featherweight in 1985 and a junior-welterweight in 1986.

Hagler was just made of oak.

here we go again, everybody is on steroids.

You need proof.

Did Jones fail a drug test? yeah, but so did the other fighter, who if I can remember correctly, tested at a higher level, despite saying that he didn't take anything and blaming Jones that he did.

We also have to look at the test: I am not sure that the test said what he took, just that he failed the test...You can take ephedrine and fail back then, and they will say it was "steroids", just because it was a foreign substance in your body.

There is also a dispute on the quality of the test by the Lab(s): Even top Labs have been found to foul up...there are so many factors that can make a "positive" come up... unless there is more proof, proper security to watch what is going on, you have to throw it out if it only happened once, especially given that the other fighter tested positive as well.


If you have the report, more info, please post it up...I would like to see the name of the Lab company, where they are from, and what the substance they found was in Jones Jr. system.

Jones moved up to 168 because he couldn't make the 160 limit anymore.


The only time I would suspect him of using steroids possibly is in the Ruiz fight...I say this because he gained the weight pretty quickly and when he lost it, he became a shot fighter....it seemed that when he lost the weight from training, he became a sluggish fighter...his legs looked like they were stuck in cement, and it hurt his stamina, when he fought Tarver and so on.
That said, I am no expert on the endocrine system, but I wouldn't be surprised at his age (in his 30's), when hormones are already on the decline (although they can stay relatively high if you train hard), that when he tried to train down (the muscle loss), that it effected his endocrine styem, thus making him "shot". So if this is true, it could show a natural decline, and not having to do with steroids.


You also have to look at this:

What was his weight when he came in when he was a light-heavyweight?
175 by weigh-in, 1?? by fight time?
Usually fighters can put on 10-20 pounds by fight time by draining themselves for weigh-in, then loading back up on electrolytes to fill back up...so if Jones came in at say, a min. of 185 by fight time, that would mean that there was a 10-15 pound increase by the Ruiz fight.

You also have to look at who he was using to gain the weight, the same guy that Hopkins used when he fought Tarver, am I right or wrong?

If so, then Hopkins's weight should be questioned as well.

Can't remember the trainers name off the top of my head, but he has trained many athletes, so they are now all in question.

The guy is considered a "Guru" in the field of manipulating/knowing how the body works.

[Yogi]

here we go again

Funny enough, that's exactly what goes through my mind every time I get set to read one of your numerous excuse ridden posts.

[Abe Attell]

Jones tested positive before, Butterfly, for something called Ripped Fuel or something like that...That took place after the Richard Hall fight.

Ripped Fuel carried "ephedrine" in the supplement...it causes a positive steroids test...even a NFL players this year failed for "ephedrine" this year and they reported he failed for "steroids"...it wasn't until a few days later that they said exactly what he failed for...they probably wouldn't have even mentioned the drug he failed if not for the baseball fiasco.

Some supplements are also contaminated with other drugs because of the way they are made: products can be used in the same machines, so if you have a protein powder placed in one machine, and a testosterone booster placed in the same machine, the minerals can be left over and mixed.

[Abe Attell]

Funny enough, that's exactly what goes through my mind every time I get set to read one of your numerous excuse ridden posts.

My posts, in which way?


I can at least look at the whole picture...most just want to take one side and can't play/think in all the angles.

[GasPed]

Marvin Hagler was a great technical fighter with great heart and chin too. But not a heck of a lot of athletic talent to go with it. I personally think prime Hopkins would do very well against Marvin, and probably even beat him.

I cannot think of a single middleweight in history (except maybe a prime SRR) who I would favour over RJJ in his prime. You can talk about applying pressure and all, but you have to catch up the guy first. No one applies consistent pressure to RJJ in his prime simply because his feet are the best in the game. Hagler could pressure, but frankly he was not fleet of foot - he wouldn't stand a chance. He would get potshotted right and left as he tried to corner Jones, and eventually clinched if he ever did.

I personally think a very fast counter puncher might stand a chance against RJJ - might be able to time him as he leaps in and out. Of course Toney tried that and it didn't work, but then he maybe wasn't at the top of his game...