The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling topics such as Errol Spence vs. Shawn Porter, Gennady Golovkin vs. Sergiy Derevyanchenko, Errol Spence vs. Terence Crawford, and more.
Hi Mr Breadman, To the point. Two questions.
I would like to hear your opinion, on the Porter Vs. Spence decision. I had Porter winning the fight, 7 rounds to 5. I watched the fight a few times and i feel Porter out worked Spence, i know you dont score fights as you watch them, but give me your eyeball scoring.
Second, on my previous emailed, i. asked you to dissect Carlos Adames for me, you said you have not seen enough of him. Have you seen enough to the date, so i can get your opinion.
Thank you very much.
Mateo from Brooklyn
Bread’s Response: I thought both fighters made cases for winning the fight. I thought both guys won minimum 5 rounds and maximum 7. 6 rounds a piece was what most people I know scored it with Spence winning because of the knockdown.
This was a very a good fight. It was a little sloppy but nonetheless it was very good. I thought Spence was landing a nice left hand shovel shot underneath as Porter leaned in. I also thought Spence got away with about two dozen low blows. He was hitting Porter as low as the thighs.
Porter isn’t accurate but he landed some nice shots. His jab was working. Spence didn’t over move because you can’t let Porter gain momentum and crash into you. So Spence held his ground and fired with Shawn. I liked the strategy.
They went at it like two junkyard dogs. But Spence was more accurate and efficient and it showed up in the knockdown. Porter was leaning over and he cocked his hand back while dropping the other. Spence kept his eye on the target and threw a short accurate text book punch. Fundamentals show up in crucial spots.
I also think Shawn Porter did himself proud. People don’t like how Porter fights. You can tell Porter is not part of the in crowd with these urban kids. But Porter stepped up and fought a fighter who has been openly ducked. Porter gave a great account of himself and made a case for winning. Porter had a lot going against him and he really did his thing.
Carlos Adames is very good. I hope he gets to fight Jaime Munguia. I think he beats him. Admaes is strong, has solid fundamentals and he has a fighter’s spirit. But I need to see more. He’s close to a title a shot.
What a call! You picked Spence by a hard fought decision, when most said Spence would crush Porter. You also said that Porter fatigues somewhat because of how much energy he has to put out and Spence would take advantage late. That’s exactly what happened.
Do you think Spence was a little overrated? I saw you rated him #8 on your P4P list. I think that’s about right considering.
Bread’s Response: I felt strongly that the odds were too wide going into this fight. I also felt that Spence would not stop Porter and the fight would be close. Porter’s problem will always be his problem. Inaccurate punches and fatigue late because of how much energy he has to put out.
But man does that kid has heart. I got goose bumps when he told Errol let’s go after the knockdown. My goodness I would take Shawn Porter into battle with me any day.
I think Spence is the TRUTH. Being #8 P4P in the world is awesome considering his best opponents and when he became a P4P. I saw him on some P4P list before he ever won a title. Beating Kell Brook was real. But Brook was coming down in weight and off of a bad beating where his corner stopped the fight. Spence was the favorite on the road.
Spence passed the eye ball test but everything else was on projection. Porter provided the test we wanted Mikey Garcia to provide. Porter tried to win every round, and he made Spence earn everything and raise his game. Garcia is better than Porter on paper but he wasn’t in the ring.
I think Spence passed the test and now the depth of his resume is improving. I don’t think he was overrated at all. I just think his anointment was a little early. He came through in the clutch like great fighters do.
Lot’s of great fighters have razor close nights vs very good fighters. Larry Holmes had one vs Tim Witherspoon. James Toney had one vs Reggie Johnson. It’s boxing.
I want to point something out about Shawn Porter. I’ve been around sports my whole life and I noticed a trend. Shawn Porter is underrated in boxing the same reason why certain people are underrated in highschool or in the hood. Listen close.
Porter is viewed as CORNY. I’m not saying it’s right but that’s how his peers view him. Listen close as Spence talks about Porter’s suit that he was wearing. Porter hangs out with his dad and he talks about GOD all the time. Porter doesn’t wear VERSACE and GUCCI. Porter still wears braids. Porter doesn’t curse or talk urban. Porter also has a grinding style. He’s not a sharp shooter, one punch ko artist or a reflex god.
So look at the NBA. A guy like Tim Duncan will never be as popular as say Allen Iverson. A girl from around the way who wears GAP and sweat pants won’t be as popular as a chick who wears high heel designer clothes.
I think because Shawn is the way he is, it causes his opponents and the fans to underrate him. Shawn does his own thing and he doesn’t worry about keeping up. I respect Shawn Porter’s values and his individualism. And I really believe Spence looked at Porter as if he wasn’t on the level because Porter is viewed as corny. But Shawn Porter is an animal on the inside. He has plenty of experience. He trains like a savage. And he had something in his eyes. Shawn looked at Errol and asked him what does he think now. Shawn may not say it but he knows how he is viewed. They thought Broner would beat him because Broner is viewed as being cooler than Shawn. Broner was actually the favorite vs Porter.
Perception is something else. We as a society have to be careful with a false perception. Shawn Porter can fight his butt off. He just does it his own way and he was underrated going into this fight because of it.
What do you think happens with Top Rank and PBC in regards to Crawford vs Spence?
Bread’s Response: I don't think anything happens. Spence will fight a PBC fighter in his next 2 or 3 fights on PPV. It’s common sense. Spence will keep building his resume among PBC fighters on PPV while Crawford tries to find suitable opponents. Spence is younger and he has more options. I don’t have a horse in the race. It’s just how it is.
I know people will bring up Wilder vs Fury. But Wilder doesn’t have the same options. And Fury while a tremendous fighter is not Terence Crawford. If Crawford beats Spence then it takes away the PBC leverage in one of boxing ’s most lucrative division. Why would PBC do that fight when Spence literally has 6 PPV options on PBC where the winner will be in house. Wilder doesn’t have that and he’s older than Spence.
It’s apples and oranges. Big companies don’t usually throw their biggest rivals life rafts. PBC doesn’t care that Crawford doesn’t have big name opponents. That’s on them. They have to figure it out. Top Rank has historically been experts in figuring it out. I can see them asking Jose Ramirez to rise in weight and fight Crawford. Or waiting for the Prograis vs Taylor winner to rise in weight.
I also think Top Rank will start to petition the other sanctioning bodies rank Crawford #1. If Crawford becomes Spence’s mandatory then we have some food on the stove. Let’s see how it plays out. The game is to be sold not to be told.
I know it's late for today's mail bag. Sorry lol but I gotta say, I see alot of people writing Porter off and saying he's getting KO'd . I'll admit it don't like Porter, I think he's corny, his style is hard to watch and he just isn't mean enough. I'll say I picked Danny Garcia to KO him with that left hook and I was wrong. I look back at that Left hook Broner knocked him down with in the 12th round and that punch should of put him out but he got up and kept going. His level of tenacity has to be respected. So I going with him against Spence. I say He comes in close and trys to bull him I know alot of people thin that plays right in to Spence's hands but I say it throws him off and he catches a but that takes him out of his game plan. He ruins the pac fight and Crawford talk. Takes him out in 11 unless Spence survives and its 115-113 for porter. Haney is getting big for 135 if he goes up he got Prograis and Taylor there. How do you think he fairs there vs them . I think Teofimo is making a mistake vs Comey and he might go the Bojado route . I say TR moves Ramirez up cuz ESPN wants a major fight and has Crawford vs Ramirez . Let me know what you think.
Geno from the Bay
Bread’s Response: If someone emails me after Friday I usually don’t post it but you made a compelling case for Shawn Porter. He almost pulled it out. I also agree with you that Porter is viewed as sort of corny and it’s why he gets underrated. But how he dresses or acts has nothing to do with how he fights. Shawn Porter can rumble.
Devin Haney can fight anyone from 135-140 and not be over his head. He could be the best lightweight in the world right now. We just don’t know it yet.
Lot’s of people have left the Teofimo Lopez bandwagon. There is just an indifferent feeling around him at this point. I didn’t like how he looked or reacted to an opponent not folding. But it’s just one fight. Let’s see how he handles Richard Commey. I will say that he has to perform. He doesn’t have to win but he has to perform. He can’t lay an egg. With how cocky him and his father have been about his abilities, he has to really fight a good fight. I think he has the ability to do it but boxing more mental than physical.
I have a feeling Ramirez moves up too but who knows. He may not want to take one for the team. He fought Mo Hooker in his hometown in a unification. He didn’t have to do that. Maybe Top Rank goes after Vergil Ortiz. That’s another good fight for Crawford.
Hi Bread,
What is your opinion of Rashidi Ellis? I consider him to be one of the hidden jewels of welterweight division like Jaron Ennis. Any idea why he is inactive since last year?
Regards,
Saurabh
Bread’s Response: I have no idea what happened to Ellis. I saw him make his pro debut in Boston back in 2014. That kid can really fight. I hope he’s not injured. There has to be a reason why an undefeated prospect with over 20 wins is not being showcased more.
You gave your top 10 P4P fighters last week. I’m now asking who has the P4P best 10 chins in boxing…
Bread’s Response:
1.GGG- Tungsten Chin. Just unreal the way he shakes shots off. Hagler, Tua, Toney level chin.
2. Canelo Alvarez- This dude was buzzed once as a kid vs Cotto and now he can stand right in front of you and take whatever you throw. On top of having a great chin, he has great reflexes that keeps him from getting hit super clean.
3. Jarrett Hurd- Hurd has poor defense but his chin makes up for it. He eats punch after punch clean and he never discourages.
4. Juan Estrada- Estrada has sublime skills but no one talks about his chin. It’s as good as his skills.
5. Deontay Wilder- Wilder is 40lbs lighter than his opponents. He’s always attacking them. He hurts them more than they hurt him. Wilder has a good set of whiskers.
6. Shawn Porter- Porter was dropped by a shot on the money but Errol Spence. He jumped up and yelled “Let’s Go!” Porter routinely presses fights and takes huge shots and never discourages.
7. Jermall Charlo- The middleweight Charlo has taken some huge shots in his career and he has the rare ability to hold his ground and not fall off balance. He has a real chin.
8. Murat Gassiev- Gassiev took bombs from Dorticos and proven puncher and didn’t blink. Big time chin that kid has.
9. Nonito Donaire- has an underrated Oscar De La Hoya type chin. People look at his other attributes and they forget his chin is as reliable as any on boxing. If it holds up against the Monster it goes up on the list.
10. Vasyl Lomachenko- Loma routinely steps to bigger guys. Stays in the pocket and he stays in there. I know he has great defense but he does get hit and he never discourages. His chin and toughness are hugely underrated.
Hi Breadman,
Hope all is well with you.
What are your thoughts on Benavidez fighting at 160. It HASN’T been mentioned by his team that he is going to MW, but just a hypothetical question.
Benavidez just said he makes 168 easily, and when Alex Ariza was his S&C coach, he said that the numbers showed that he could make 160. He’s 22 and turning 23 this year, so his youth will allow him to shed the extra 8 lb, but will he remain effective is the question? His physical dimensions and attributes would possibly make him a nightmare at MW. If he can healthily make 160 and knock off a few of the champs there, that would incredible.
I know, all hypothetical, but still possible.
At 168 he has Plant, Smith, Saunders and others that are all excellent matchups. If a tournament was made at 168 today with Plant, Smith, Saunders and Benavidez, who comes out on top? Gun to your head and you have to pick. LOL
Your final thoughts on the Spence vs Porter fight? I had Spence winning clearly, even though he had to dig deep and beat Porter at his game, while also utilizing his subtle boxing ability at the same time.
Mythical matchups:
Roberto Duran vs Aaron Pryor at 140
Ike Quartey vs Shane Mosley at 147
Oscar De La Hoya vs Antonio Margarito at 147/154
Wilfred Benitez vs Fernando Vargas at 154
Winky Wright vs GGG at 160 – the Kassim Ouma fight comes to mind…
Roberto Duran vs Canelo at 160
As always, appreciate your amazing work!
All the best,
Adrian
Bread’s Response: Benavidez can’t make 160 my man. No need to talk about it. If he does he will get hurt.
Gun to my head I would pick Plant or Smith to win it. I can’t choose between the two but all of the match ups are great. No division in boxing has 4 undefeated in their prime champions. I hope they put something big together.
I thought the fight was razor close. Maybe the knockdown pulled it out. I didn’t score it with a pen and pad. Great fight. Top 5 candidate for fight of the year.
Duran over Pryor in an all time great war. Duran just a little too efficient and technically better. In a war those little things count.
Quartey over Mosley. Mosley doesn’t defend a jab well and Quartey won’t be bullied by him. But Quartey was open to the body and Mosley was vicious to the body. Great fight.
Oscar by the skin of his teeth over Marg but I wouldn’t be surprised if peak Margarito in a small window could beat him. 06-08 is that window.
Benitez outboxes Vargas and frustrates him and drops him late for a decision.
GGG over Winky in a really tight controversial fight. I think Winky would be right with him but GGG in his prime may be a little too busy. Winky blocks punches and you don’t want GGG touching your arms that much.
Duran vs Canelo at 160. Canelo is better at 160 but Duran’s best 2 nights at 160 are Hagler and Barkley. While Canelo is more consistent and his prime this is even on best nights.
Hey Bread,
Great prediction once again, Porter tried his best to find a way to win that fight til the end, what a warrior !
I have 2 questions :
• Do you think Spence was a little too much focused on knocking out Porter ?
• How do you see a fight between Porter and Crawford going on ?
Max from France
Bread’s Response: I think Spence is a killer. He fought a style he was comfortable with. Shawn is just hard to stop. You can’t stop everyone.
The thing about Porter’s style is that it fades bad. I don’t know when it will fade but right now he looks as good as ever. I think he gives Crawford all he could handle.
Crawford is a smoother boxer than Spence but I don’t know if he hits harder and as strong. If Crawford can’t back Shawn up or hold his ground then it’s a really tough fight but I would pick Crawford by decision.
Hey Bread,
Real quick.
How were the one-handed fighters, specifically guys like Tommy Loughran, able to compete at such a high level? Seems like they are taking away half their arsenal in doing so. Ward kind of became a one-hander from the outside.
Also, any last minute feelings about GGG vs Derevyanchenko?
Thanks!
Sincerely,
Jay
Thoughts?
Bread’s Response: I like GGG by late brutal stoppage in a hard fought fight. I think his jab is too good and SD hasn’t shown the ability to get his 2nd wind once he starts laboring. Solid match up. This fight will most likely look like GGG vs David Lemiuex but more competitive.
The great trainer Naazim Richardson once told me when a fighter goes looking in his tool box for a weapon sometimes it’s easier to have just one weapon instead of 10 that you have to choose from.
I knew exactly what he meant when he told me that about 10 years ago. My interpretation was under the stress of a fight the brain has to process at a fast speed under stress. And often times we will see a guy who looks to have all of the tools coming up through the ranks but at a certain level they can’t put it all together. No one can understand why. And the reason being they can do too much and often they don’t know what tool to use during critical moments.
Tommy Loughran wanted to do one thing. Frustrate his opponents with a jab. So therefore his mind processed at a rapid speed because his solution for just about every adjustment was the jab. If you notice Andre Ward’s mind also processes very fast although he didn’t have the greatest outside attack as far as punch variation. They knew what they were going to use.
Then you have fighters like say a Charles “The Natural” Murray. Who had excellent all around games. But they never reached the heights they were expected to because they didn’t fight the right styles on the right nights.
Although Oscar De La Hoya was a left hand dominant fighter. He had an all around game. He was a puncher. He could box his butt off. He had a serious punch variety and his right hand was better than Ward’s. But Ward fought the right fight all the time. Oscar for as great as he was often fought an indifferent fight and made poor adjustments because he had so much to choose from. Against Floyd he started flurrying instead of punching meaningful. Against Mosley in their 1st fight he slugged when he could have outboxed him. Against Tito he over moved instead of holding his ground and tying him up once Tito started charging. Oscar’s indecisiveness came from having too many tools in his box.
Bread,
Great call on the fight over the weekend! You said it had the chance to be a classic where Spence would win a close competitive but clear decision. I think that is exactly what we saw. A 8-4 type of win for Spence where he had to dig deep and pull away late in the fight. I was watching some JRock interviews and just his tweets, but seems like he saw it the same way I did.
This was a straight dog fight from the opening bell not all that dissimilar from Hurd/Williams. My question to you is, when you get into that type of fight, is it impossible to get out of it? Meaning, when you get in a dog fight in the early rounds, often times it ends up being that way throughout the fight. Even the best defensive fighters such as Whitaker and Mayweather were in some dog fights. Just look at Floyd's fights with Maidana, Chavez and Augustus. The latter two were when Floyd was in his peak form and he still had to fight that type of fight and couldn't just box from the outside. Curious to hear your opinion on this considering JRock was involved in a fight pretty damn similar to this one earlier in the year.
Oh, and I saw your tweets about Spence being "exposed." You just got to love fans, don't ya?? Any tight competitive fight and the fighter is all of a sudden overrated or exposed. Guess fans will never want to see any high level competitive fights. 12-0 blowouts or quick KOs only!!!
Take care.
Bread’s Response: Great question.
Often times the energy of a fight with so much at stake will predetermine how the fight is fought. Once things get down and dirty it’s very difficult to start boxing cute even if you have the ability to do so. I’m not saying it’s impossible but it’s difficult. A perfect example of that is Leonard vs Duran 1 and 2. Leonard fought a dog fight the 1st time. He started out dogging. In the rematch he cooled the mood down and started out boxing and the fight kept that energy. My suggestion is if you want to box start out boxing. Because once you start dogging it’s extremely difficult to change the mood. It’s easier to go from boxing to slugging, then it is to go from slugging to boxing.
Errol Spence was NOT exposed. He fought a fighter in Shawn Porter who is about 4 swing rounds from being undefeated. Porter may not be viewed as a great fighter but he is a great test. He’s one of those guys who matches up well with just about anyone in his era like Marlon Starling and Ken Norton for the most part.
Spence showed us what he has. He’s in dog shape. He’s strong as an ox. He can take a shot. He can adjust. He can think under pressure. Before the Kell Brook fight, we were projecting what we think of Spence. After Brook we knew he wasn’t a front runner. After Mikey Garcia we know he can box and use a world class jab. After Porter we know he can take pressure. Just because he didn’t stop Porter doesn’t mean he was exposed. It’s hard to dominate every single opponent.
Also let me tell you something. An elite swarmer is the hardest style to overcome physically if you aren’t George Foreman powerful like he was against Frazier. You can’t swarm Foreman, he’s the most powerful man ever in boxing. Spence is powerful but not welterweight like Foreman powerful.
We just don’t see swarmers in this era because it takes too much to get into that kind of shape. Porter and his dad train like savages and you have to, to fight like that. Look at Margarito in his prime. No one wanted to fight him. Look at how highly regarded Roman Gonzalez was. Look at Chavez vs Rosario. Look at Fenech vs McCrory. Look at Mcguigan vs Pedroza. Look at Pryor vs Cervantes. Look at Salido vs Lopez. Look at Hurd vs Lara.
I’m telling you guys a real swarmer is a freaking nightmare. We don’t have any Sandy Saddler’s or Henry Armstrong’s in this era. Porter and a handful of others are the only ones who really swarm. But facing one is a different type of test. In the rock, paper, scissors of boxing. A boxer’s biggest nightmare is a swarmer. Spence’s physical strength and his ability to hold his ground kept him above water. Anything less and he gets drowned.
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