Why is Canelo considered GREAT?

Miguel Cotto was the reigning lineal middleweight champion when Canelo beat him. Liam Smith was the reigning WBO 154 champion when Canelo beat him. Danny Jacobs was the reigning IBF 160 champion when Canelo beat him. Sergey Kovalev was the reigning WBO 175 champion when Canelo beat him. Callum Smith was the reigning Ring and WBA 168 champion when Canelo beat him. Billy Joe Saunders was the reigning WBO 168 champion when Canelo beat him. Caleb Plant was the reigning WBC 168 champion when Canelo beat him. William Scull was the reigning IBF 168 champion when Canelo beat him (I know Shishkin got robbed, those are the breaks) He took belts off 8 different fighters in 4 different weight classes, not counting the Golovkin robbery from the second fight. Get a grip on reality. You can nitpick any resume to pieces if you try hard enough. You can do it to Floyd, Manny, Crawford, Inoue, Usyk, any of them. Canelo is an all time great. His career trajectory post-Bivol was pretty sad to watch, but it doesn't change what he accomplished to get to that point. This is the thing about Canelo's resume - on paper it looks strong but upon closer inspection all is not what it seems. In some of these cases you really have to look at how said champions acquired their titles; Miguel Cotto was the reigning lineal middleweight champion when Canelo beat him. (Cotto beat a badly injured Martinez and against Canelo only weighed 153lbs) Liam Smith was the reigning WBO 154 champion when Canelo beat him. (Canelo busted his a$$ to move down in weight to avoid GGG in 2016) Danny Jacobs was the reigning IBF 160 champion when Canelo beat him. (Jacobs fought for a vacant title, he didn't beat a champion for it) Sergey Kovalev was the reigning WBO 175 champion when Canelo beat him. (Low lying fruit - old, not enough preparation time and legal issues outside the ring) Callum Smith was the reigning Ring and WBA 168 champion when Canelo beat him. (Canelo only seemed eager to fight him after Ryder revealed wrinkles in his game) Billy Joe Saunders was the reigning WBO 168 champion when Canelo beat him. Caleb Plant was the reigning WBC 168 champion when Canelo beat him. (Uzcátegui had Plant wobbling all over the ring despite losing his title) William Scull was the reigning IBF 168 champion when Canelo beat him (Shishkin was one shot away from KOing Scull) Canelo takes calculated risks when selecting opposition. He will generally offer fights to opponents who he knows operate at a lower technical level than himself. He also likes to offer fights to older & smaller opponents as well as those who have recently shown vulnerability. He rarely ever fights those in their peak. The only time he truly did was when he faced Jacobs but he insisted on a rehydration clause in that.

There has to be levels of great. Nelo might be a lower tier great. Nel o lost to bud, but you can't take nelos glory way from him, and his wins at 168. Bud beating Nelo isn't necessarily better than Nelo doing all the donkey work and beating a wide variety of 168 fighters. All bud needed to do was train 10 months of the year for specifically the Nelo fight, which is what bud did, and try steal glory from under nelo. If you look at it, bud beating Nelo is easier than Nelo beating 3 different champs at 168.

His resume is not that good if you put it in context. Look at when he fought those faded champions. I am not even here to hate but if Mexicans say he is the best mexican then that proves they forgot alot of their own history in the ring which is sad. Miguel Cotto was the reigning lineal middleweight champion when Canelo beat him. Liam Smith was the reigning WBO 154 champion when Canelo beat him. Danny Jacobs was the reigning IBF 160 champion when Canelo beat him. Sergey Kovalev was the reigning WBO 175 champion when Canelo beat him. Callum Smith was the reigning Ring and WBA 168 champion when Canelo beat him. Billy Joe Saunders was the reigning WBO 168 champion when Canelo beat him. Caleb Plant was the reigning WBC 168 champion when Canelo beat him. William Scull was the reigning IBF 168 champion when Canelo beat him (I know Shishkin got robbed, those are the breaks) He took belts off 8 different fighters in 4 different weight classes, not counting the Golovkin robbery from the second fight. Get a grip on reality. You can nitpick any resume to pieces if you try hard enough. You can do it to Floyd, Manny, Crawford, Inoue, Usyk, any of them. Canelo is an all time great. His career trajectory post-Bivol was pretty sad to watch, but it doesn't change what he accomplished to get to that point.

That list can and should be edited to reflect the reality surrounding those fights: W vs Miguel Vazquez SD 4 W vs Miguel Vazquez UD 10 W vs Carlos Baldomir KO 6 (40 years old) W vs Lovemore N'dou UD 12 W vs Kermit Cintron TKO 5 W vs Shane Mosley UD 12 (40 years old) L vs Floyd Mayweather Jr. MD 12 (schooled - lost every round) W vs Erislandy Lara SD 12 (should've lost - favourable judging) W vs Miguel Cotto UD 12 (Cotto didn't win just 2 rounds... favourable judging) W vs Amir Khan KO 6 (forced a welterweight to move up two weight classes) W vs Liam Smith KO 9 (weighed 20lbs-25lbs more than Smith in the ring) W vs Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. UD 12 (forced a light-heavyweight down to a 164lbs catchweight) D vs Gennadiy Golovkin SD 12 (robbery, GGG whooped his ass) W vs Gennadiy Golovkin MD 12 (another robbery, GGG whooped his ass again) W vs Danny Jacobs UD 12 (put a rehydration clause in a 160lbs unification fight??) W vs Sergey Kovalev KO 11 (allowed 36 year old Kovalev only 5 weeks to prepare from previous fight & inserted a rehydration clause) W vs Callum Smith UD 12 (started his campaign at 168lbs as soon as Benavidez' wbc title was stripped) W vs Billy Joe Saunders RTD 8 W vs Caleb Plant TKO 11 L vs Dmitry Bivol UD 12 (soul taken - judges attempted the robbery but such a one sided fight it wasn't possible) W vs Gennadiy Golovkin UD 12 (40 year old debuting at 168lbs swept the last 4 rounds) W vs Jermell Charlo UD 12 (forced a junior middleweight to move up two weight classes) W vs Jamie Munguia UD 12 (only had two previous fights at the weight) W vs William Scull UD 12 (should've lost to Shishkin in previous fight but they robbed him) L vs Terence Crawford UD 12 (forced to move up two weight classes but still put a beating on Canelo) Canelo's career has been carefully managed and promoted, whenever he has been forced to step up his level in competition he has struggled, been frustrated or lost. These are not the attributes of a great fighter! Thank you ^^^^^^^^^^^

Greater than Floyd, sure. Unlike Floyd, canelo actually took some risks in his career, when he didn`t have to. Fought Floyd, being drained, when he didn7thave to Fought lara when he didn`t have to Fought GGG twice at 160 Fought washed up Kovalev at 175 Fought Bivol at 175 Crawford was a cherry pick that went badly wrong. Whoaaaaaaaa. Damn smdh.

Canelo vs fighters that won a major world title at some point in their careers (not counting secondary/interim): W vs Miguel Vazquez SD 4 W vs Miguel Vazquez UD 10 W vs Carlos Baldomir KO 6 W vs Lovemore N'dou UD 12 W vs Kermit Cintron TKO 5 W vs Shane Mosley UD 12 L vs Floyd Mayweather Jr. MD 12 W vs Erislandy Lara SD 12 W vs Miguel Cotto UD 12 W vs Amir Khan KO 6 W vs Liam Smith KO 9 W vs Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. UD 12 D vs Gennadiy Golovkin SD 12 (robbery, GGG whooped his ass) W vs Gennadiy Golovkin MD 12 (another robbery, GGG whooped his ass again) W vs Danny Jacobs UD 12 W vs Sergey Kovalev KO 11 W vs Callum Smith UD 12 W vs Billy Joe Saunders RTD 8 W vs Caleb Plant TKO 11 L vs Dmitry Bivol UD 12 W vs Gennadiy Golovkin UD 12 W vs Jermell Charlo UD 12 W vs Jamie Munguia UD 12 W vs William Scull UD 12 L vs Terence Crawford UD 12 Other notable wins: Austin Trout, John Ryder, Josesito Lopez, Edgar Berlanga, Matthew Hatton, Avni Yildirim, Rocky Fielding, Alfredo Angulo, James Kirkland Even with the two GGG robberies, it's not hard to understand why Canelo was well regarded. He became risk-averse after the Bivol loss but that doesn't change what happened before that. Titles won 154: Ring, WBC 160: Lineal/TBRB, Ring, WBA, WBC, IBF 168: Lineal/TBRB, Ring, WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO undisputed 175: WBO His resume is not that good if you put it in context. Look at when he fought those faded champions. I am not even here to hate but if Mexicans say he is the best mexican then that proves they forgot alot of their own history in the ring which is sad.

Greater than Floyd, sure. Unlike Floyd, canelo actually took some risks in his career, when he didn`t have to. Fought Floyd, being drained, when he didn7thave to Fought lara when he didn`t have to Fought GGG twice at 160 Fought washed up Kovalev at 175 Fought Bivol at 175 Crawford was a cherry pick that went badly wrong.

A better question is: why do unaccomplished males on the internet consider nitpicking elite fighters' achievements a good use of their intellectual energy?

That list can and should be edited to reflect the reality surrounding those fights: W vs Miguel Vazquez SD 4 W vs Miguel Vazquez UD 10 W vs Carlos Baldomir KO 6 (40 years old) W vs Lovemore N'dou UD 12 W vs Kermit Cintron TKO 5 W vs Shane Mosley UD 12 (40 years old) L vs Floyd Mayweather Jr. MD 12 (schooled - lost every round) W vs Erislandy Lara SD 12 (should've lost - favourable judging) W vs Miguel Cotto UD 12 (Cotto didn't win just 2 rounds... favourable judging) W vs Amir Khan KO 6 (forced a welterweight to move up two weight classes) W vs Liam Smith KO 9 (weighed 20lbs-25lbs more than Smith in the ring) W vs Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. UD 12 (forced a light-heavyweight down to a 164lbs catchweight) D vs Gennadiy Golovkin SD 12 (robbery, GGG whooped his ass) W vs Gennadiy Golovkin MD 12 (another robbery, GGG whooped his ass again) W vs Danny Jacobs UD 12 (put a rehydration clause in a 160lbs unification fight??) W vs Sergey Kovalev KO 11 (allowed 36 year old Kovalev only 5 weeks to prepare from previous fight & inserted a rehydration clause) W vs Callum Smith UD 12 (started his campaign at 168lbs as soon as Benavidez' wbc title was stripped) W vs Billy Joe Saunders RTD 8 W vs Caleb Plant TKO 11 L vs Dmitry Bivol UD 12 (soul taken - judges attempted the robbery but such a one sided fight it wasn't possible) W vs Gennadiy Golovkin UD 12 (40 year old debuting at 168lbs swept the last 4 rounds) W vs Jermell Charlo UD 12 (forced a junior middleweight to move up two weight classes) W vs Jamie Munguia UD 12 (only had two previous fights at the weight) W vs William Scull UD 12 (should've lost to Shishkin in previous fight but they robbed him) L vs Terence Crawford UD 12 (forced to move up two weight classes but still put a beating on Canelo) Canelo's career has been carefully managed and promoted, whenever he has been forced to step up his level in competition he has struggled, been frustrated or lost. These are not the attributes of a great fighter! This is exactly how we need to examine his career when it's all done. Get a magnifying glass and look at each W and L to see what were the stipulations and ages of his opponent. Be fair and balanced but try to judge the events based on the reality of the situation.

I have him in the top tier of boxers of this generation. Unfortunately, I have him at the lower half of the top tier because he did not excel in his biggest fights. Almost all of the legends beat someone on their level or higher to go down in history. I don't even think he's the greatest Mexican fighter, and is no where near as good as Julio Cesar Chavez, or had the talent of Salvador Sanchez. He gets a lot of buzz because he brings huge crowds to his fights but against the legends he couldn't get it done. It's that simple. You have to WIN.

Canelo vs fighters that won a major world title at some point in their careers (not counting secondary/interim): W vs Miguel Vazquez SD 4 W vs Miguel Vazquez UD 10 W vs Carlos Baldomir KO 6 W vs Lovemore N'dou UD 12 W vs Kermit Cintron TKO 5 W vs Shane Mosley UD 12 L vs Floyd Mayweather Jr. MD 12 W vs Erislandy Lara SD 12 W vs Miguel Cotto UD 12 W vs Amir Khan KO 6 W vs Liam Smith KO 9 W vs Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. UD 12 D vs Gennadiy Golovkin SD 12 (robbery, GGG whooped his ass) W vs Gennadiy Golovkin MD 12 (another robbery, GGG whooped his ass again) W vs Danny Jacobs UD 12 W vs Sergey Kovalev KO 11 W vs Callum Smith UD 12 W vs Billy Joe Saunders RTD 8 W vs Caleb Plant TKO 11 L vs Dmitry Bivol UD 12 W vs Gennadiy Golovkin UD 12 W vs Jermell Charlo UD 12 W vs Jamie Munguia UD 12 W vs William Scull UD 12 L vs Terence Crawford UD 12 That list can and should be edited to reflect the reality surrounding those fights: W vs Miguel Vazquez SD 4 W vs Miguel Vazquez UD 10 W vs Carlos Baldomir KO 6 (40 years old) W vs Lovemore N'dou UD 12 W vs Kermit Cintron TKO 5 W vs Shane Mosley UD 12 (40 years old) L vs Floyd Mayweather Jr. MD 12 (schooled - lost every round) W vs Erislandy Lara SD 12 (should've lost - favourable judging) W vs Miguel Cotto UD 12 (Cotto didn't win just 2 rounds... favourable judging) W vs Amir Khan KO 6 (forced a welterweight to move up two weight classes) W vs Liam Smith KO 9 (weighed 20lbs-25lbs more than Smith in the ring) W vs Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. UD 12 (forced a light-heavyweight down to a 164lbs catchweight) D vs Gennadiy Golovkin SD 12 (robbery, GGG whooped his ass) W vs Gennadiy Golovkin MD 12 (another robbery, GGG whooped his ass again) W vs Danny Jacobs UD 12 (put a rehydration clause in a 160lbs unification fight??) W vs Sergey Kovalev KO 11 (allowed 36 year old Kovalev only 5 weeks to prepare from previous fight & inserted a rehydration clause) W vs Callum Smith UD 12 (started his campaign at 168lbs as soon as Benavidez' wbc title was stripped) W vs Billy Joe Saunders RTD 8 W vs Caleb Plant TKO 11 L vs Dmitry Bivol UD 12 (soul taken - judges attempted the robbery but such a one sided fight it wasn't possible) W vs Gennadiy Golovkin UD 12 (40 year old debuting at 168lbs swept the last 4 rounds) W vs Jermell Charlo UD 12 (forced a junior middleweight to move up two weight classes) W vs Jamie Munguia UD 12 (only had two previous fights at the weight) W vs William Scull UD 12 (should've lost to Shishkin in previous fight but they robbed him) L vs Terence Crawford UD 12 (forced to move up two weight classes but still put a beating on Canelo) Canelo's career has been carefully managed and promoted, whenever he has been forced to step up his level in competition he has struggled, been frustrated or lost. These are not the attributes of a great fighter!

:lol1: To diminish Canelo's greatness is to diminish Crawford's victory over him. It was after all, a close fight.

Editing this because something is wrong on the site where it is double and triple posting posts

I would argue he didn't beat GGG in his prime. Golovkin was robbed in first two fights and washed up for the rubber match. Canelo made him wait until he aged out. Canelo's knockouts, chin, and loyal fanbase made him appear greater than he was. I can't say he's not a great fighter but I also don't know how much the PEDs helped him along in his career. The tainted beef excuse is weak. If we consider he got gifts 2x vs GGG, vs Lara, and barely scraped by a game Cotto, what's left? He ducked Benavidez and Zurdo while claiming he'd never fight a Mexican fighter. To his credit he was ducked by Charlo.

I would argue he didn't beat GGG in his prime. Golovkin was robbed in first two fights and washed up for the rubber match. Canelo made him wait until he aged out. Canelo's knockouts, chin, and loyal fanbase made him appear greater than he was. I can't say he's not a great fighter but I also don't know how much the PEDs helped him along in his career. The tainted beef excuse is weak. If we consider he got gifts 2x vs GGG, vs Lara, and barely scraped by a game Cotto, what's left? He ducked Benavidez and Zurdo. To his credit he was ducked by Charlo.

- - There were never any GGG robberies. The first fight a draw that I had Canelo by 1 point, so glad I score fights the way I do to be so close. 2nd fight Canelo took Ring Center and knocked GGG out of it anytime he ventured in for 10 rounds. For 11 and 12 walking backwards, Canelo kept GGG walking into counters. Third fight was a retirement benefit for GGG who was most greatful...yer welcome... Learn to score a fight. First fight was 8-4 GGG, second fight was 7-5 GGG, third fight was 8-4 Canelo. And don't forget that Canelo: 1. Dropped a belt to duck a younger GGG 2. Popped for PEDs and got the rematch delayed again, wasting 6 months of a 3. Waited four extra years and pulled him up a weight class to make the trilogy

- - There were never any GGG robberies. The first fight a draw that I had Canelo by 1 point, so glad I score fights the way I do to be so close. 2nd fight Canelo took Ring Center and knocked GGG out of it anytime he ventured in for 10 rounds. For 11 and 12 walking backwards, Canelo kept GGG walking into counters. Third fight was a retirement benefit for GGG who was most greatful...yer welcome... Learn to score a fight. First fight was 8-4 GGG, second fight was 7-5 GGG, third fight was 8-4 Canelo. And don't forget that Canelo: 1. Dropped a belt to duck a younger GGG 2. Popped for PEDs and got the rematch delayed again, wasting 6 months of an older fighter's career 3. Waited four extra years and pulled him up a weight class to make the trilogy

Editing this because something is wrong on the site where it is double and triple posting posts

I would argue he didn't beat GGG in his prime. Golovkin was robbed in first two fights and washed up for the rubber match. Canelo made him wait until he aged out. Canelo's knockouts, chin, and loyal fanbase made him appear greater than he was. I can't say he's not a great fighter but I also don't know how much the PEDs helped him along in his career. The tainted beef excuse is weak. If we consider he got gifts 2x vs GGG, vs Lara, and barely scraped by a game Cotto, what's left? He ducked Benavidez and Zurdo. To his credit he was ducked by Charlo.

This is one of those semantics things that always seems to happen here. Where is the line between ATG, Great, Very Good, Awesome, Legend, ETC? We all seem to use these terms without defining the bands that fit within them. I feel if you watched Canelo fight, then you could easily tell he was a top P4P fighter in the world during his prime (possibly the top for a period in the late 10s). He is a worthy HOFer no doubt, and thats regardless of the fanfare around him. For those who just look at resume, well that becomes tricky, all his wins against future HOFers, or those most consider to be great, took place when those fighters were past their primes. But they were still quality wins. Not to mention he beat a lot of real good fighters throughout his career. In all the history of professional boxing, I think he makes everyones top 100 list, if that doesnt make you great, well then I guess we need to better define where the line of greatness is.