Floyd Mayweather vs Juan Manuel Marquez

From the Wiki, "Retirement is the withdrawal from one's position or occupation or from one's active working life.​" Though I like Webster's variation better, "Webster's defines "retire" as: to withdraw from action or danger: retreat;" So if Floyd didn't put a pause on staying in shape, it meant he knew he was coming back, thus he didn't truly retire. He was simply sitting it out until the shake up finished and he could go for the scrap picks. Well Big Dunn the official Floyd excuse boy said his hands was hurtin how you training so hard with your hands hurtin

He didn't put a pause on staying in shape. That was the point . You're the one that had something go over your head. But it's understandable that you couldn't see it through your Pacquiao worshipping. From the Wiki, "Retirement is the withdrawal from one's position or occupation or from one's active working life.​" Though I like Webster's variation better, "Webster's defines "retire" as: to withdraw from action or danger: retreat;" So if Floyd didn't put a pause on staying in shape, it meant he knew he was coming back, thus he didn't truly retire. He was simply sitting it out until the shake up finished and he could go for the scrap picks.

Oh you're really still going with this? He is right

“Cherrypicked” is a woefully overused term these days. Well in this case it is not because it is fact that undersized Marquez had no business moving up two weightclasses in one fight to take on the established top guy who scammed him on the catchweight agreement Floyd cherrypicked him because he was an undersized guy who wasn't a threat whatsoever that's cherrypicking in its simplest form

No. It's just another acknowledgement of an ignorant casual fan showing how uneducated they are when it comes to boxing. That would be you. Boring. Oh you're really still going with this?

Bro, Floyd "retiring" sounds like it went over your head if you're giving him props for it. He literally put a pause on his career by saying he retired so guys in his division can beat themselves up. Then wait and see the outcomes to pick and choose the best route. It was fake retirement just to avoid some of the more dangerous opponents. He didn't put a pause on staying in shape. That was the point . You're the one that had something go over your head. But it's understandable that you couldn't see it through your Pacquiao worshipping.

This is just emotionally immature pathologising of disagreement. Very boring. No. It's just another acknowledgement of an ignorant casual fan showing how uneducated they are when it comes to boxing. That would be you. Boring.

This is true .This point , though is part of what makes Floyd an ATG that dude was disciplined AF all year round . Bro, Floyd "retiring" sounds like it went over your head if you're giving him props for it. He literally put a pause on his career by saying he retired so guys in his division can beat themselves up. Then wait and see the outcomes to pick and choose the best route. It was fake retirement just to avoid some of the more dangerous opponents.

We not talking about Manny though we talking about Floyd the guy who is his own boss until it's time to take accountability At least you acknowledge the blatant cherrypick which is more than most Floyd fanboys do I was being sarcastic. :rolleyes:{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/www.boxingscene.com\/forums\/core\/image\/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAPABAP\/\/\/wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw=="}​ “Cherrypicked” is a woefully overused term these days. A cherry-pick to me is something like when somebody who absolutely is nowhere nearly enough skilled or merit (recent wins, overall resume) getting chosen. ie…Danny Garcia fighting Rod Salka. ie…Canelo fighting Berlanga. The latter was strictly chosen because it was formulaic. An undefeated Puerto Rican, power puncher, wears the black hat of the narrative… I know Floyd got a lot of flack for beating up on Marquez in the immediate aftermath, but post 2009 Marquez showed he was still a threat at 147. You’re asking me why did Floyd need every conceivable advantage? Shit, my guess is as good as yours. Your assumption is just suspicion. We’re going in circles. That fight was 12-0 or 11-1 at best. If people had clamored for a rematch when Marquez iced Manny, I still think Floyd at his worst would’ve beaten Marquez in my humble opinion. What you’re sounding like is sorta like me when I get cranky about Manny Pacquiao allowing both Oscar de la Hoya and Joshua Clottey fight at the full 147 pound weight limit but made Miguel Cotto go down to 145. But then I just decide to NOT die on that hill because in the end, I really don’t think it would’ve made that much of a difference. Maybe Cotto wins a couple more rounds but drags himself to the finish line lumped slightly less. Who knows? We’re just drawing hypotheticals.

A “cherry-pick”, sure. Double standards between May and Pac, but whatever. Tomayto, tomahto. We not talking about Manny though we talking about Floyd the guy who is his own boss until it's time to take accountability At least you acknowledge the blatant cherrypick which is more than most Floyd fanboys do

Ok so the point is this was a blatant cherrypick. So when people call Floyd a cherrypicker, we can refer back to these statements A “cherry-pick”, sure. Double standards between May and Pac, but whatever. Tomayto, tomahto.

You’re right, he would’ve had to have several fights for him to grow into it. I’m all for criticizing Floyd for what he did coming in past the originally agreed upon limit weight (they changed it on the day of contractually). All I’m saying is that in the larger scope of things, when I look at Marquez’s later career at welterweight giving Pacquiao hell when the media said he was “too small”, and yet he continued to give him hell two more fights, holding his own against Timothy Bradley, and knocked down and beat Mike Alvarado…he was a always a great fighter BUT… Having said all that, I don’t give Floyd a lot of grief for that (and believe me, there are a lot of other things to give him grief about) because I always chalk it up to Floyd just being a bad match-up for a style like Marquez’s. I never saw anything post 2008 (from Marquez) that would’ve flustered Mayweather. Is it admonishable what Floyd did? Yes. Do I think that deviated a lot from the end result of the fight? No, not really. Ok so the point is this was a blatant cherrypick. So when people call Floyd a cherrypicker, we can refer back to these statements

Lots of excuses for a guy who was #2 p4p in the world. Floyd aint no big guy. He didn't weight bully Marquez. He just gave him hands. He was coming off a year and some change layoff. He took even longer because he got injured in camp. You could literally see the rib sticking out of Floyd's side. Because of the injury marquez had EVEN more time to get to the weight. What made it so impressive to me is Marquez with all those skills couldn't even make it a decent performance. He looked like he didn't belong in the ring with a guy knocking off ring rust and a injury. I personally thought it was very impressive

Ok so again if you don't think Marquez would have beaten Mayweather, why did Floyd not honor the catchweight agreement, being that he held every conceivable advantage naturally, plus Marquez was totally untested at 147. Having an extra two months isn't gonna make him a full fledged ww imo You’re right, he would’ve had to have several fights for him to grow into it. I’m all for criticizing Floyd for what he did coming in past the originally agreed upon limit weight (they changed it on the day of contractually). All I’m saying is that in the larger scope of things, when I look at Marquez’s later career at welterweight giving Pacquiao hell when the media said he was “too small”, and yet he continued to give him hell two more fights, holding his own against Timothy Bradley, and knocked down and beat Mike Alvarado…he was a always a great fighter BUT… Having said all that, I don’t give Floyd a lot of grief for that (and believe me, there are a lot of other things to give him grief about) because I always chalk it up to Floyd just being a bad match-up for a style like Marquez’s. I never saw anything post 2008 (from Marquez) that would’ve flustered Mayweather. Is it admonishable what Floyd did? Yes. Do I think that deviated a lot from the end result of the fight? No, not really.

I don’t think Marquez could’ve ever beaten Mayweather at 147, 144…nor did it matter whether or not Marquez had acclimated to the weight as he did by 2013-2013. A lot of people tend to overlook the fact that the fight originally was scheduled for July 2009 but got pushed back to September 2009 which benefitted Marquez to get more accustomed. All the reasons above and the fact that Marquez looked good in later fights in his final years at welterweight (against power punchers) to me don’t convince me nevertheless that he would’ve fared much better against a defensive wizard like Floyd. Ok so again if you don't think Marquez would have beaten Mayweather, why did Floyd not honor the catchweight agreement, being that he held every conceivable advantage naturally, plus Marquez was totally untested at 147. Having an extra two months isn't gonna make him a full fledged ww imo

Ok so if that is the case, why did Mayweather need every conceivable advantage to fight him. He already had a natural height/reach advantage, and Marquez certainly was untested two weightclasses up I don’t think Marquez could’ve ever beaten Mayweather at 147, 144…nor did it matter whether or not Marquez had acclimated to the weight as he did by 2013-2013. A lot of people tend to overlook the fact that the fight originally was scheduled for July 2009 but got pushed back to September 2009 which benefitted Marquez to get more accustomed. All the reasons above and the fact that Marquez looked good in later fights in his final years at welterweight (against power punchers) to me don’t convince me nevertheless that he would’ve fared much better against a defensive wizard like Floyd.

to be hoenst, jmm was never really THAT good, he just has the perfect style for manny and since pacman was so dominate at that time, it made marquez look like he was a lot better than he really is.... but when jmm fought against other great fighters, he was nothing special... i mean just look at his fight against tim bradley LOL. JMM was a very good fighter, he just wasn’t phenomenal in any particular department like Floyd was with his defense or Pacquiao with his offense. He didn’t have movie star good looks nor did he have a charismatic personality. Marquez gets his flowers but he never had superstar appeal or that “it” factor. Stylistically, he was an excellent combination counter-puncher. The difference between him and Floyd (as counter-punchers) was that Floyd was a very clean counter puncher. He’d make you miss, clock you and get out or parry, tag you, and wheel away. Marquez on the other hand would stick his head in the fan and get into skirmishes…75-80% time he’d end up winning it and his uppercut was absolute dynamite. By the end of March 2008 when he had his second fight with Pacquiao, a lot of people I think were look on at him as an entertaining fighter…which was perhaps kind of an exaggeration. Marquez could stink up the joint because he was a counterpuncher through and through, but he was able to look sensational anytime he had a come forward fighter, which is why his fights with Pacquiao (1, 2 and 4), Juan Diaz (1) and Katsidis are a glitzy showcase for his counter punching combination prowess.

I don't think the layoff mattered for Mayweather. He was still training This is true .This point , though is part of what makes Floyd an ATG that dude was disciplined AF all year round .

Same reason Manny drained Cotto and ODH and CW’d Margs- he used his power as the a side. Stop complaining about that only when Floyd does it. Manny didn't drain cotto and Oscar was the a side you fvkcing idiot.

Most fighters fight a mix of guys bigger and smaller. Even say Ali was relatively large for his time, was heavier than fraizer, was only 4 pounds smaller than "big george". Mayweather fights ONE confirmed guy who was actually smaller than him on fight night in his last 20 fights, even zab and Pacquaio were the same weight as floyd or more and then they make a huge deal out of it. Never mind that JMM was what p4p number 2 in the world they still cry how much smaller he was. Its seriously the only guy anyone can confirm weighed less on fight night in Floyds 20+ championship fights.