Ww have only 3 legit contenders at hw now

What if Usyk vacated all the belts but continued to fight on? He'd still be the champion and even if Dubois collected all 4 belts his claim would still be a joke. If Usyk's belts went three ways (presumably due to avoiding challengers) and Dubois went and beat every one of the new holders, one after the other, in addition to dealing with mandatories... I think I'd accept his status as a champion boxer. Lineal Champion, on the other hand, is a different story. Let's continue your example. Having dropped the three belts, Usyk goes on a tour of fighting Pianeta, Seferi and Schwartz while Dubois is cleaning out the rest of the top 5. Usyk would be lineal, for what that is worth, but would you call him the champion in that scenario? ​​​

Interesting debate. The meaning of sanctioning body belts. It's mostly semantics being argued here, but when Ali met Frazier in 71', or when Spinks met Tyson, or when Foreman lost the title to Briggs; all kinds of activities among the contenders surrounded them; but at Heavyweight at least, the lineal title is everything and the sanctioning body belts; even when all collected up, are nothing; because documented history says so. Usyk is the lineal champion because he won it in the ring. Dubois is simply a contender who holds a belt. But if they rematch, it will be a re-unification of the belts....until the next stripping.

That's not an unlikely scenario, it's impossible. The Undisputed champ is not going to be stripped by all 4 orgs. No-one is winning all 4 secondary straps and then being elevated 4 times by email. Not really worth discussing. What if Usyk vacated all the belts but continued to fight on? He'd still be the champion and even if Dubois collected all 4 belts his claim would still be a joke.

What if Benavidez were to beat Eifert for an interim IBF strap and then Smith for the interim WBO strap? Then he'd have all four secondary belts. Would he instantly become champion over Bivol if, say, Bivol got stripped of all his titles for pursuing a 4th Beterbiev fight if the trilogy ended in a draw? Benavidez would have all the alphabet soup belts but Bivol would still be the undefeated lineal/TBRB/Ring champion of the world. It's an unlikely scenario, but it proves my point. In that scenario the winner of a fourth Bivol-Beterbiev fight is the legitimate champion of the world. You could make up 500 belts and give them to anybody you want but that fight would be the world championship no matter what. That's not an unlikely scenario, it's impossible. The Undisputed champ is not going to be stripped by all 4 orgs. No-one is winning all 4 secondary straps and then being elevated 4 times by email. Not really worth discussing.

Andy Ruiz would smash all three. He drew his last fight, he may be done but he is a serious contender in a big fight. Have you even scored the second Joshua fight properly? Ruiz won quite clearly.

You said, and I quote... I'm arguing that if anyone can gather all of those belts, then I'm going to call them champ. What if Benavidez were to beat Eifert for an interim IBF strap and then Smith for the interim WBO strap? Then he'd have all four secondary belts. Would he instantly become champion over Bivol if, say, Bivol got stripped of all his titles for pursuing a 4th Beterbiev fight if the trilogy ended in a draw? Benavidez would have all the alphabet soup belts but Bivol would still be the undefeated lineal/TBRB/Ring champion of the world. It's an unlikely scenario, but it proves my point. In that scenario the winner of a fourth Bivol-Beterbiev fight is the legitimate champion of the world. You could make up 500 belts and give them to anybody you want but that fight would be the world championship no matter what.

I didn't say it was worth nothing. World titles are nice accomplishments and being undisputed is a better accomplishment. Worthy of celebration. But it doesn't make you the champion. If Usyk vacated all the belts tomorrow but continued fighting, he'd still be the champion and even if one person won all the straps, they wouldn't have a claim while Usyk was still active. The idea that Dubois, who got knocked out on a jab by Usyk, became champion while Usyk was still undefeated by beating a guy that Usyk beat not once, but twice, is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard in my life. I don't care one tiny bit what the sanctioning bodies say. Dubois is a world titlist but he's not a champion. You said, and I quote... You could win the WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO, and IBO belts and still not be the champion. I'm arguing that if anyone can gather all of those belts, then I'm going to call them champ.

No top wins then. This depends on where your "top" starts.

No. Once again, the sanctioning bodies don't crown champions. They have zero to do with the process. What they do is decide who has followed their own bureaucratic process and award them with a trinket. World titles are not world championships. You could win the WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO, and IBO belts and still not be the champion. They do. So you think your opinion holds more weight than the IBF? :lol1: I highly doubt in 100 years time someone will review the history books and say Daniel Dubois was not a legitimate Heavyweight champion because famicommander on the boxingscene forums said so. As I keep having to repeat, I don’t disagree with your sentiments but it is what it is.

While I agree that Usyk is THE champion, I wouldn't say that twice undisputed at heavyweight is worth nothing. To become Undisputed you need to navigate so many roadblocks in the sport. The things Usyk had to do to gather belts are exactly what makes him a great champion. I didn't say it was worth nothing. World titles are nice accomplishments and being undisputed is a better accomplishment. Worthy of celebration. But it doesn't make you the champion. If Usyk vacated all the belts tomorrow but continued fighting, he'd still be the champion and even if one person won all the straps, they wouldn't have a claim while Usyk was still active. The idea that Dubois, who got knocked out on a jab by Usyk, became champion while Usyk was still undefeated by beating a guy that Usyk beat not once, but twice, is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard in my life. I don't care one tiny bit what the sanctioning bodies say. Dubois is a world titlist but he's not a champion.

No. Once again, the sanctioning bodies don't crown champions. They have zero to do with the process. What they do is decide who has followed their own bureaucratic process and award them with a trinket. World titles are not world championships. You could win the WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO, and IBO belts and still not be the champion. While I agree that Usyk is THE champion, I wouldn't say that twice undisputed at heavyweight is worth nothing. To become Undisputed you need to navigate so many roadblocks in the sport. The things Usyk had to do to gather belts are exactly what makes him a great champion.

Again. I don’t agree with the IBF’s rulings, but it is how it is. If Usyk and Dubois fight again it’s a unification between two champions. Not a champion versus a contender. No. Once again, the sanctioning bodies don't crown champions. They have zero to do with the process. What they do is decide who has followed their own bureaucratic process and award them with a trinket. World titles are not world championships. You could win the WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO, and IBO belts and still not be the champion.

The sanctioning bodies have jack **** to do with who is a champion. Completely unrelated concepts. They don't even pretend they're ranking the entire division from best to worst, they are up front about the fact that they are ranking who has jumped through their arbitrary hoops the best (and/or whose promoter has the most pull). You cannot tell me someone became champion by winning a belt stripped from the actual champion when the fight was between a guy he knocked out with a jab and a guy he beat twice by 12 round decision. That's the most ridiculous nonsense I've ever heard. What happened is the IBF decided to remove their world title from the champion and give it to someone entirely undeserving. It doesn't change a thing about who the champion is because the IBF strap had nothing to do with Usyk's becoming champion in the first place. Again. I don’t agree with the IBF’s rulings, but it is how it is. If Usyk and Dubois fight again it’s a unification between two champions. Not a champion versus a contender.

All you did was throw a hissyfit because I called a guy with zero quality wins and a bad loss (to another fighter with multiple KO losses and zero quality wins) a hypejob. Heavyweight is an incredibly thin division and Bakole and Anderson don't even have any wins against fringe level guys. The only people who ever thought they were good were people who let promoters decide their opinions for them. I explained in great detail in a series of posts my POV, I then offered to just agree to disagree, but you got triggered. AS I explained before: Yes a thin division, there are literally maybe two guys who are at the top right now... NOBODY has solid wins against a top guy. Parker has just stepped up and you have Usyk. Given the relative quality of the division (something I qualified like ten times now?) Bakole and Jared have a relative value compared to others in the same heet and that IMO is not hype job. If this was when Lewis was fighting, eighties, etc I would actually agree with you, but it is a different time and given the mean and the situation with each guy we disagree about their relative status.

:owned::bottle: All you did was throw a hissyfit because I called a guy with zero quality wins and a bad loss (to another fighter with multiple KO losses and zero quality wins) a hypejob. Heavyweight is an incredibly thin division and Bakole and Anderson don't even have any wins against fringe level guys. The only people who ever thought they were good were people who let promoters decide their opinions for them.

It's not hyperbole and just calling people who disagree with you a casual doesn't make you seem smarter or more informed. Take your head out of your own ass you pretentious douchenozzle. :owned::bottle:

Dude... I have been very clear about what I am talking about. Your hyperbole is aggravating, save it for Duhgum and company. Casuals always exagerate. Anderson was never terrible but you know what? we are not going to agree and you are getting really annoying like your ****** posts on Lee so take the next post, I am agreeing to disagree, have a great day. It's not hyperbole and just calling people who disagree with you a casual doesn't make you seem smarter or more informed. Take your head out of your own ass you pretentious douchenozzle.

I did watch the fights. What the hell are you even talking about? Martin was never lauded, he won a vacant strap because his opponent blew out a knee and then he sold it to Joshua 2 months later. He's been a living punchline his whole career. Anderson is terrible and I never "read his mind". He was openly discussing an early retirement before he ever stepped into the ring with a single quality opponent. He was a hypejob his entire career and I said so from the first time I ever saw him fight. Dude... I have been very clear about what I am talking about. Your hyperbole is aggravating, save it for Duhgum and company. Casuals always exagerate. Anderson was never terrible but you know what? we are not going to agree and you are getting really annoying like your stupid posts on Lee so take the next post, I am agreeing to disagree, have a great day.

You are not able to read minds... Jared had talent and was able to get recognition, he was not the stand out predicted but he had a great jab and decent skills for the present state of the division. Charles was lauded at one point! Proof of the division strength. Stop using gossip to look evaluate and watch the actual fights. I don't care what Jared thinks about boxing,and heobviously was good enough to get where he got... though again, weak division permitting... Watch the actual fights and use them they6 are a lot more reliable. Bakole systematically took away his jab and walked him down, those are facts. I did watch the fights. What the hell are you even talking about? Martin was never lauded, he won a vacant strap because his opponent blew out a knee and then he sold it to Joshua 2 months later. He's been a living punchline his whole career. Anderson is terrible and I never "read his mind". He was openly discussing an early retirement before he ever stepped into the ring with a single quality opponent. He was a hypejob his entire career and I said so from the first time I ever saw him fight.

He was fighting Hunter with one arm. Good point. I never use that to defend Bakole... I believe even with the injury Bakole figured out that he had to learn to fine tune his footwork, his jab and cutting the ring down. I just do not find that he lacked those skills because of the shoulder injury... but that is just an opinion.