Is Luis Ortiz the greatest heavyweight to never win a title

What is Ortiz`s the best win, for a start? It must be Jennings? LOL. Even Chisora has much better resume , with wins over Wallin, Joyce, Pulev, Washington, Takam. I think its time for a who is greater chisora vs ortiz thread

poor luiz ortiz for some odd reason he just never got to show his greatness i wonder why????

What is Ortiz`s the best win, for a start? It must be Jennings? LOL. Even Chisora has much better resume , with wins over Wallin, Joyce, Pulev, Washington, Takam.

Sam Langford no one else comes close.

AJ is always the favorite when he gets blown away. That's his thing. It is a venerable tradition... Frank Bruno was no doubt the favorite to beat Witherspoon...

It was all over the news at the time. Miller got popped for PEDs and Ortiz, or whoever it was who did his talking for him, piped up on social media saying he was ready to step in and challenging Hearn to give him the spot. Hearn responded by making him an offer of $5million. Ortiz's team turned it down and accused Hearn of low-balling them. Hearn increased the offer to $7million but that was also turned down. Andy Ruiz ended up taking the fight for $5million. Ortiz would have had a puncher's chance, but he never beat anybody as good as AJ, and AJ had beaten better men than Ortiz, so he would have been favourite if it had happened. AJ is always the favorite when he gets blown away. That's his thing.

Not on his team and not aware of the particulars involved; but looking closely at those two fighters; their respective strengths and liabilities; I would immediately jump at a title shot at the talented, respected but fragile Joshua, if I were piloting Ortiz. What Andy Ruiz and Daniel Dubois can do; Ortiz could have done better just a few years ago. It was all over the news at the time. Miller got popped for PEDs and Ortiz, or whoever it was who did his talking for him, piped up on social media saying he was ready to step in and challenging Hearn to give him the spot. Hearn responded by making him an offer of $5million. Ortiz's team turned it down and accused Hearn of low-balling them. Hearn increased the offer to $7million but that was also turned down. Andy Ruiz ended up taking the fight for $5million. Ortiz would have had a puncher's chance, but he never beat anybody as good as AJ, and AJ had beaten better men than Ortiz, so he would have been favourite if it had happened.

thank you for your randomly generated list As opposed to what? Your crappy alphabet soup, political, special interest based list? Willow has real objective considerations. Your list is regurgitated garbage.

joyce was simply on the tough side of the bracket with guys like dubois, parker, and zhang. wilder and ortiz were on the easy side of the bracket(by their choice) when the fighters all started fighting each other wilder and ortiz fell off. guys like zhang, parker, dubois, and joyce very shortly ended up towards the top and the bottom lesser fighters like wilder and ortiz were filtered out. Tell me how good Zhang is? a one armed fighter with no endurance... According to your understanding he was much better than the rest because he beat Joyce lol. So what makes Zhang so unbeatable? And how good was Dubois when he fought Joyce? As a prospect pretty much... Parker has skills, some arguments could be made for that, for what it is worth. Dubois as great as he was like the rest could not beat a premier heavyweight. Joshua lost to a premier heavyweight. Usyk, who beat them both said Fury was by far his toughest fight... Furywho went life and death with a functional Wilder. See how that works? I gues Usyk was Lying? lol.

in your reality travis kauffman and malik scott are on the same level as dubois and parker and you have said as much which is what destroys your credibility. you pretzel yourself every time by saying "they are all the same" which of course is complete rubbish and that leaves you with the "ortiz has better skills" argument which of course is completely subjective and even if we entertained that argument if ortiz had such great skills how come he couldnt beat wilder? or ruiz jr? how come he almost lost to charles martin? if joyce was such a bum how was he able to beat jennings(ortizs best win) stiverne(wilders 2nd best win) and dubois and parker who are at the top of the division right now. when you look at all that data its pretty clear the wilder, ortiz, pbc side of the bracket was incredibly weak and those guys were overrated because when they combined the brackets guys like ortiz and wilder didnt hold up to the rest of the division. you are acting like this didnt happen which is strange because it did. you cant play the "when wilder and ortiz fight the other guys they will win" argument because they didnt and you certainly cant say that side of the bracket was better since a guy like joyce handled wilder and ortizs best wins on top of beating some of the top guys from his side of the bracket. joyce actually got some big wins. wilder and ortiz feasted on each other then got mollywopped by the better fighters. You neglect to consider the times before Dubois and Parker got better. You make distinctions amongst fair to good fighters but refuse to make a distinction between the Dubois who lost to Joyce, the Parker who was fair to middlin and when they jelled into more improved fighters... You want to have it both ways, you either make fine distinctions, or do not. My argument is based on actual physical evidence, what one can see from tape, and logic. You do not consider losses (how silly) and you wantto make subjective "rankings" objective. You also completely ignore Wilder's success and would have people believe when he was shot he was the same fighter. Again, a casual view... real fans? they can watch tape and see the difference between a shot fighter and a really dangerous puncher, but you cannot, so you wind up the gimp. Almost lostto martin? lol... Ok if he almost lost to Martin lets look at how Joyce was unable to make a basic adjustment against a one armed fighter. Joyce's success should tell you what a weak division it is. Do you think Zhang was better than all those guys he beat lol. You contradict yourself... You want to make fine distinctions when it suites you and then you want to declare a great range of talent in the division when the facts clearly tell us this is a weak division with some fighters who have gotten better, still weak though... And that is the general statement that is true... Wilder would always be dangerous, but yes, in a cracker jack division he would probably fair like Shavers, for a while, but Wilder just had no durability. You don't get that, you never will. Typical casual who makes utterly ridiculous assertions based on alphabet soup politics and little else. Then you release the Gimp because you could not handle it... You know how toxic that Euronationalist Gimp is? The pollution count went up! learn more about the sport, learn about the technical side, aspects that are not always obvious... learn what a shot fighter looks like... be able to specifically illustrate WHY and HOW a fighter like Jennings and Stiverne are worse in a general way than other fighters in the division...

Ortiz was skilled but it's difficult to tell how good he really was because he doesn't really have standout wins against respected top 10 opponents. Was his best win Bryant Jennings back in 2018.. Or Charles Martin a few years ago..? Wilder turned out to be slightly limited and overrated, having lost to the 3 best guys he ever faced (on paper) Fury, Parker and Zhang. But Ortiz lost to Wilder twice. joyce was simply on the tough side of the bracket with guys like dubois, parker, and zhang. wilder and ortiz were on the easy side of the bracket(by their choice) when the fighters all started fighting each other wilder and ortiz fell off. guys like zhang, parker, dubois, and joyce very shortly ended up towards the top and the bottom lesser fighters like wilder and ortiz were filtered out.

Only in your alternate reality Duhhgum. in your reality travis kauffman and malik scott are on the same level as dubois and parker and you have said as much which is what destroys your credibility. you pretzel yourself every time by saying "they are all the same" which of course is complete rubbish and that leaves you with the "ortiz has better skills" argument which of course is completely subjective and even if we entertained that argument if ortiz had such great skills how come he couldnt beat wilder? or ruiz jr? how come he almost lost to charles martin? if joyce was such a bum how was he able to beat jennings(ortizs best win) stiverne(wilders 2nd best win) and dubois and parker who are at the top of the division right now. when you look at all that data its pretty clear the wilder, ortiz, pbc side of the bracket was incredibly weak and those guys were overrated because when they combined the brackets guys like ortiz and wilder didnt hold up to the rest of the division. you are acting like this didnt happen which is strange because it did. you cant play the "when wilder and ortiz fight the other guys they will win" argument because they didnt and you certainly cant say that side of the bracket was better since a guy like joyce handled wilder and ortizs best wins on top of beating some of the top guys from his side of the bracket. joyce actually got some big wins. wilder and ortiz feasted on each other then got mollywopped by the better fighters.

Knowledge, son. Based on deep, deep knowledge; and having seen all the heavyweight contenders being mentioned here fighting live, and most of them training. I only teach. Seldom debate. As to which accomplishes greater gains; the jury deliberates. Relating to Ruiz and Dubois relative to Oriz, at full measure; I don't count you as incorrect; which is your good news for the day. The current era is 2015 - 2025 1. Oleksandr Usyk 2. Tyson Fury 3. Deontay Wilder 4. Zhilei Zhang 5. Anthony Joshua 6. Daniel Dubois 7. Joseph Parker 8. Andy Ruiz Jr 9. Martin Bakole 10.Luis Ortiz 11.Wladimir Klitschko (old ver) 12.Agit Kabayel 13.Dillian Whyte 14.Joe Joyce 15.Jarrell Miller 16.Alexander Povetkin (old ver) 17.Derrick Chisora 18.Kubrat Pulev (old ver) 19.Filip Hrgovic 20.Charles Martin 21.Fabio Wardley 22.Carlos Takam 23.Johann Duhaupas 24.Robert Helenius 25.Jared Anderson 26.Hughie Fury 27.Otto Wallin 28.Bryant Jennings 29.Frank Sanchez 30.Bermane Stiverne 31.Efe Ajagba 32.Chris Arreola (old ver) 33.Michael Hunter 34.Frazier Clarke 35.Bakhodir Jalolov 36.Tony Yoka 37.Murat Gassiev 38.Aleksandr Ustinov 39.Lucas Browne 40.Dominic Breazeale 41.Gerald Washington 42.Jermain Franklin 43.Lenier Pero 44.David Haye 45.Vyacheslav Glazkov 46.Ruslan Chagaev (old) 47.Guido Vianello 48.Arslanbek Makhmudov 49.Johnathan Guidry 50.Francis Ngannou ​ thank you for your randomly generated list

didnt we already establish joe joyce as being a lot better than ortiz, and he was in the exact same era. joyce beat dubois and parker. ortiz beat jennings and malik scott? im sure we can think of 20 guys better than him and its not even hard to win a belt in the 4 belt era Only in your alternate reality Duhhgum.

Not on his team and not aware of the particulars involved; but looking closely at those two fighters; their respective strengths and liabilities; I would immediately jump at a title shot at the talented, respected but fragile Joshua, if I were piloting Ortiz. What Andy Ruiz and Daniel Dubois can do; Ortiz could have done better just a few years ago. Yup... We are expected to believe that Ortiz and his team were scared? As Judge Judy often says "If it does not make sense, it is probably not true." We will probably never know what factors led to the fight between Ortiz and Joshua not happening... But one thing I have faith in? It did not have to do with a duck.

based on what? ruiz and dubois are both better than ortiz so i dont understand that at all. of course styles make fights but if a limited fighter like wilder was able to bomb ortiz out of there couldnt you assume a much better fighter like joshua would do the same? Knowledge, son. Based on deep, deep knowledge; and having seen all the heavyweight contenders being mentioned here fighting live, and most of them training. I only teach. Seldom debate. As to which accomplishes greater gains; the jury deliberates. Relating to Ruiz and Dubois relative to Oriz, at full measure; I don't count you as incorrect; which is your good news for the day. The current era is 2015 - 2025 1. Oleksandr Usyk 2. Tyson Fury 3. Deontay Wilder 4. Zhilei Zhang 5. Anthony Joshua 6. Daniel Dubois 7. Joseph Parker 8. Andy Ruiz Jr 9. Martin Bakole 10.Luis Ortiz 11.Wladimir Klitschko (old ver) 12.Agit Kabayel 13.Dillian Whyte 14.Joe Joyce 15.Jarrell Miller 16.Alexander Povetkin (old ver) 17.Derrick Chisora 18.Kubrat Pulev (old ver) 19.Filip Hrgovic 20.Charles Martin 21.Fabio Wardley 22.Carlos Takam 23.Johann Duhaupas 24.Robert Helenius 25.Jared Anderson 26.Hughie Fury 27.Otto Wallin 28.Bryant Jennings 29.Frank Sanchez 30.Bermane Stiverne 31.Efe Ajagba 32.Chris Arreola (old ver) 33.Michael Hunter 34.Frazier Clarke 35.Bakhodir Jalolov 36.Tony Yoka 37.Murat Gassiev 38.Aleksandr Ustinov 39.Lucas Browne 40.Dominic Breazeale 41.Gerald Washington 42.Jermain Franklin 43.Lenier Pero 44.David Haye 45.Vyacheslav Glazkov 46.Ruslan Chagaev (old) 47.Guido Vianello 48.Arslanbek Makhmudov 49.Johnathan Guidry 50.Francis Ngannou ​

That would be Tua

no. that is sam langford.

Ortiz was skilled but it's difficult to tell how good he really was because he doesn't really have standout wins against respected top 10 opponents. Was his best win Bryant Jennings back in 2018.. Or Charles Martin a few years ago..? Wilder turned out to be slightly limited and overrated, having lost to the 3 best guys he ever faced (on paper) Fury, Parker and Zhang. But Ortiz lost to Wilder twice.

He was a lot better than the AJ stans make him out to be, but there's a lot of guys like Jimmy Young, Ike Ibeabuchi, & David Tua, who could be in that discussion.