Let's talk blocked punches that hurt you anyways ...

So if Beterbiev's blocked punches should be counted so should Bivol's. You see how this works? If Bivol's blocked punches caused Beterbiev to stop throwing for minutes at at time running from corner to corner, maybe they would.

So if Beterbiev's blocked punches should be counted so should Bivol's. You see how this works? If it cracks his cheek bone, yes ... :cool:

So if Beterbiev's blocked punches should be counted so should Bivol's. You see how this works?

It's not about who is worse for wear. Its a sport. Hitting gloves, hitting arms is absolutely part of boxing. They just don't score. This isn't amateur boxing. The shots were breaking the guard and hitting and hurting Bivol.

Some right hands got through evidently... But when Bivol himself says he got damage from blocking shots, you have to believe him ... And frankly I believe these blocked punches doing damage were taken into consideration by the judges along with the aggression factor ... There was more than meet the eyes there ... Absolutely. Your last sentence sums it up.

Certainly... But was this damage caused by "blocked punches?" Was it "some shots getting through?" When we try to distinguish these shots we really cannot lol. We are left with "damage." If a judge could look at those shots and determine what kind of shots each was, it might be different, even to those of us who disagree and think damage is a criteria that stands on its own... Either way we are left with the Effect to guess the cause... Judges can see damage it is tangible... They can see aggression and even conclude that effective aggression was a cause... What they cannot do is tell us about punches hitting just so... Some right hands got through evidently... But when Bivol himself says he got damage from blocking shots, you have to believe him ... And frankly I believe these blocked punches doing damage were taken into consideration by the judges along with the aggression factor ... There was more than meet the eyes there ...

Bivol himself said that he felt the power through his gloves and he felt like is left thumb was cracking his cheek bone when he blocked some shots... I don't say that, he did ! His left thumb is mashed up and swollen from blocking shots.. The left side of his face was a mess... At some point you have to score the damage these shots are doing... Certainly... But was this damage caused by "blocked punches?" Was it "some shots getting through?" When we try to distinguish these shots we really cannot lol. We are left with "damage." If a judge could look at those shots and determine what kind of shots each was, it might be different, even to those of us who disagree and think damage is a criteria that stands on its own... Either way we are left with the Effect to guess the cause... Judges can see damage it is tangible... They can see aggression and even conclude that effective aggression was a cause... What they cannot do is tell us about punches hitting just so...

theres blocked and partially blocked. and to act like NONE got through that isnt the case so to say bivol got marked up from blocked punches is just an assumption This is a point I have been trying to make... Judges Judge these punches. Whether they get through a bit, not at all, etc... Is something only the two men fighting really know. I would actually be inclined to be more receptive to the ideas put fourth in the rule book about clean punching, but having fought as a martial artist, where you absolutely want the person to be deceived, I just know the limits to what a judge can see. If I make you just miss It is a great technique (in fighting), but in boxing no judge will be able to differentiate this from a hit.

“Robbery” just gets thrown around whenever someone loses a bet. Close ass fight. I thought Beter won, but thought they gave it to Bivol. I want a rematch either way just because it’s the type of fight the sport needs, but we need to stop pretending this was some crazy robbery. Very well said! Agreed.

theres blocked and partially blocked. and to act like NONE got through that isnt the case so to say bivol got marked up from blocked punches is just an assumption Bivol himself said that he felt the power through his gloves and he felt like is left thumb was cracking his cheek bone when he blocked some shots... I don't say that, he did ! His left thumb is mashed up and swollen from blocking shots.. The left side of his face was a mess... At some point you have to score the damage these shots are doing...

theres blocked and partially blocked. and to act like NONE got through that isnt the case so to say bivol got marked up from blocked punches is just an assumption

Blocking punches with your body, is not really a great defense. Rocky Marciano and George Forman would hit their opponent's arms, and damage them severely 'I think it is a underrated tactic, which more fighters should use. At some point those sort of attacks will have a effect on an fighter'. Dimtri Bivol does not have a elite defense on the level of Canelo Alvarez 'And a level above that are fighters such as Floyd Mayweather Junior, a peak Roy Jones Junior, Muhammad Ali and potentially Mike Tyson at his absolute best. Those fighters did not block punches with their body parts, whether this be their arms or gloves. Their defense consisted of actually not being physically hit, or at the very least? Riding the punch, dampening the force and impact which it can generate'. Dimtri Bivol has great movement, which is only one factor and part in what makes up a great defense 'And I think his fight vs Arthur Beterbiev I has shown that'. Note: In my opinion, and how I personally view professional boxing 'If a fighter is hitting any part of the body mass, then it for sure is a scoring punch. Of course more accurate punches through the guard up top, or to the mid section of the body I would rate more highly. But if a fighter is whacking the arms, gloves and the force of their punches is breaking through that guard? Then those are scoring punches. Fighters can deny this all they want, but the damage sustained after fights displays the evidence of scoring punches'. Oleksandr Uysk was bashed up in both of his fights vs Anthony Joshua I & II 'And even most recently, astonishingly? Daniel Dubois appeared to be more bashed up and sustain more structural damage than Anthony Joshua after their first fight'. To conclude: Dimtri Bivol was bashed up after his fight against Arthur Beterbiev 'He was bashed up, because he was blocking punches with his body. Therefore he was getting hit with Beterbiev's punches, the power generated from those punches was having a impact and causing damage'. Boxing Gloves are not built to block punches 'They are called boxing gloves, their purpose and function is for use when throwing punches. At a bag or an opponent'. A great defense consist of ether not being hit, or riding the punches, dampening the force and impact which it can generate. The most low level form of a defense in my opinion, is a fighter blocking punches with their body, and that includes the boxing gloves'. A professional boxing fights, is not a semi violent game of tick. And the fight is scored on Damage, Style and Aggression. Arthur Beterbiev was able to unequivocally out compete Dimtri Bivol in two of those categories, those area's of boxing were Damage and Agression. And even in the area of Style, Beterbiev was able to compete with Bivol to the point where? There was no area of the fight, where Dimtri Bivol had a big enough dominance to win rounds impressively or easily'. Dimtri Bivol fought a great fight, but? He was not good enough in the area's of boxing, that many people believe before the fight 'He would be quite a distance better than Arthur Beterbiev. Those area's were his movement, defense and pure boxing skills' etc.

They say that Bivol's defense was masterful and only 20% of the punches actually landed yet if they were to fight right now, I guarantee Bivol is worse for wear. Beterbiev is posting selfies in Mecca lol It's not about who is worse for wear. Its a sport. Hitting gloves, hitting arms is absolutely part of boxing. They just don't score.

The only way I can see if the fighter blocking punches doesn't throw is when it counts. If defensively the fighter block and is in the fight it is a missed punch. Activity can be used as a defense keeping the other fighter busy defensively.

They do count because one guy is the aggressor throwing punches and the other guy is turtled up blocking, therefore he is still scoring from the judges via those optics. Put up a high guard and block beterbievs bombs and let me know if they “count” or not afterwards lmaoyou can score with Effective aggression if defended punches shuts down the opponent’s offense that is effective aggression A backfoot boxer’s job is to counter off of his defense Just as it’s the front foot fighter’s duty to cut the ring off to stop the opponent’s movement Failure to do so means the opponent either has effective aggression or defense/ring generalship I prefer pure boxers but let not bullsht ourselves. Most people would score effective aggression before defense

Forget about your imagination. They do not count in the rules. Punches MUST be clean to score. They do count because one guy is the aggressor throwing punches and the other guy is turtled up blocking, therefore he is still scoring from the judges via those optics. Put up a high guard and block beterbievs bombs and let me know if they “count” or not afterwards lmao

Boxing is strange you have people who don’t count jabs you have people who want to count blocked shots For this reason when possible better to make a punch miss or parry it outright blocking it with the guard is form of defense that’s passive But activity is rewarded in this sport the top points fighters make their work obvious. They’re flashy offensively AND defensively Oct 12 was an anomaly. Bivol usually isn’t flashy offensively. He’ll usually be happy to win with just the jab but this time we saw Bivol do the big counters and rush at a great opponent after hurting him

“Robbery” just gets thrown around whenever someone loses a bet. Close ass fight. I thought Beter won, but thought they gave it to Bivol. I want a rematch either way just because it’s the type of fight the sport needs, but we need to stop pretending this was some crazy robbery. Elaborate on the fact you gave Beterbiev round 1 though :lol1: Since all you do is criticize other people's ability to score fights. Please elaborate on how you gave Beterbiev round 1.

At the end of the day there are a few ways to see the fight. I would have accepted a draw, or either man as the winner. To me, the most valid perspective, and this is simply an opinion from someone who looks for other things than simply scoring fights, has to do with the championship rounds and how Beter, came on. I am indeed talking about damage here, and how the only real damage seemed to be at the end. Punchers have been given a major handicap when 15 rounds became 12. If one had set up a Parlay and this fight had gone another 3 rounds, there was a good bet to be had that Bivol would be KO'ed. Other than that, as I said in one of my threads, if we give Bivol the first 3 rounds, and Beter the last two... and we give Beter one extra swing, otherwise even round because of the relative importance of those last two rounds, that gives us 6 rounds to work with. Did Bivol win more of those rounds? Were they so close they could have gone either way? Did both guys win some? I do not pretend to know... “Robbery” just gets thrown around whenever someone loses a bet. Close ass fight. I thought Beter won, but thought they gave it to Bivol. I want a rematch either way just because it’s the type of fight the sport needs, but we need to stop pretending this was some crazy robbery.

They say that Bivol's defense was masterful and only 20% of the punches actually landed yet if they were to fight right now, I guarantee Bivol is worse for wear. Beterbiev is posting selfies in Mecca lol At the end of the day there are a few ways to see the fight. I would have accepted a draw, or either man as the winner. To me, the most valid perspective, and this is simply an opinion from someone who looks for other things than simply scoring fights, has to do with the championship rounds and how Beter, came on. I am indeed talking about damage here, and how the only real damage seemed to be at the end. Punchers have been given a major handicap when 15 rounds became 12. If one had set up a Parlay and this fight had gone another 3 rounds, there was a good bet to be had that Bivol would be KO'ed. Other than that, as I said in one of my threads, if we give Bivol the first 3 rounds, and Beter the last two... and we give Beter one extra swing, otherwise even round because of the relative importance of those last two rounds, that gives us 6 rounds to work with. Did Bivol win more of those rounds? Were they so close they could have gone either way? Did both guys win some? I do not pretend to know...