Prime Margarito vs. Canelo. Who comes out on top in this Mexican showdown?

something that goes on under the radar to many fight fans are how fighters transition weight classes. Some guys are just more able, some guys are big at their initial weight, they lose too much power... It runs the gamut. Margarito was big for his initial weight... That helped him along. True. Paul Williams was fluid transitioning between classes. Margarito for a while was going back and forth.

I hear ya. Cotto was bleeding much more than he EVER did in that 2008 fight. The Santos fight was at 154, and Santos was never stopped in his career (durable). Additionally, people assume that 154 Margarito was a significant puncher. It’s kind of like Mosley…people know he was a titantic puncher at 135, he skipped 140, was still a decent puncher at 147, but he didn’t have that POP at 154. Same with Margarito…and the few opponents he did fight at 154 were few and far in between. If he DID start using plaster somewhere, it most likely was after the Sebastian Lujan fight or after the Williams loss when he ratcheted 2 quick TKO wins before running through Cotto and reaching his apex and falling from grace. something that goes on under the radar to many fight fans are how fighters transition weight classes. Some guys are just more able, some guys are big at their initial weight, they lose too much power... It runs the gamut. Margarito was big for his initial weight... That helped him along.

Funny how after he got popped, Margacheato never scored a KO win again. El Tornado became El Light Breeze. This is true and makes one think... I stopped assuming everyone here thought Margarito was guilty... Some posters I respect apparently are not convinced. But in my opinion a lot of information, including the above, points to him being guilty.

All valid and good points. It's been ages since I've seen many of those fights and I am only left with what I remember thinking at the time. I will say that I think the effect of the wraps was significant...I remember thinking that Cotto fought very well in the first fight but the impact of Margarito's punches seemed so much more and then I compare it to the rematch. Even at the time of the first fight with Cotto, I was surprised at how much more effective his punches were compared to when I saw him fight Daniel Santos. I hear ya. Cotto was bleeding much more than he EVER did in that 2008 fight. The Santos fight was at 154, and Santos was never stopped in his career (durable). Additionally, people assume that 154 Margarito was a significant puncher. It’s kind of like Mosley…people know he was a titantic puncher at 135, he skipped 140, was still a decent puncher at 147, but he didn’t have that POP at 154. Same with Margarito…and the few opponents he did fight at 154 were few and far in between. If he DID start using plaster somewhere, it most likely was after the Sebastian Lujan fight or after the Williams loss when he ratcheted 2 quick TKO wins before running through Cotto and reaching his apex and falling from grace.

As much as I wanna doggy pile and keep crapping on Margarito, I feel the need to keep things in perspective. A lot of people like to point out that his power dissipated after the controversy, but that’s kind of a misnomer. After Nazeem caught the illegal pads, Margarito fought: -Shane Mosley (that night) -Robert Garcia (at 154) -Pacquiao -Cotto rematch He then came back on again and off again but the Cotto fight is where his days on TV and in the big spotlight end. I don’t think his power faded as much as he just fought fighters that realized how to beat him and were just that good. On top of that (at the time), Mosley had zero losses by stoppage, Pacquiao had two losses by stoppage (AGES ago), and Cotto was always durable and would’ve made it to the final bell of the Pacquiao fight. I mean, seriously, if Kenny Bayless allowed Cotto to fight on through round 9, 10, and 11…at that point let him finish. :rolleyes: For all the talk of Margarito turning into a cream puff puncher, both Pacquiao and Cotto (rematch) looked roughed up in their respective post fight press conferences. I know Pacquiao just bludgeoned Tony and you wouldn’t be able to tell by just the scorecards, but Margarito bruised Pacquiao up. But the thing is everybody remembers is Pacquiao’s onslaught. Tony would land 3 or 4 but Pacquiao would come back with 8 or 10 of his own. The jig was up. I just think by then he was figured out. Mosley does very well against face first brawlers and on top of that I don’t think Margarito was making weight easily. His physique looks a lot different in his Mosley fight compared to his fights with Cotto or Pacquiao. And this is coming from a Puerto Rican. I think Margarito was tough enough to beat anyone if they didn’t bring a full gas tank. That’s all. If you had above average stamina and could be disciplined enough to box, he gets lamed out. All valid and good points. It's been ages since I've seen many of those fights and I am only left with what I remember thinking at the time. I will say that I think the effect of the wraps was significant...I remember thinking that Cotto fought very well in the first fight but the impact of Margarito's punches seemed so much more and then I compare it to the rematch. Even at the time of the first fight with Cotto, I was surprised at how much more effective his punches were compared to when I saw him fight Daniel Santos.

Silly post and I will tell you why: At least address the reason why that first Cotto fight was suspect. I take it you do not believe Margarito's wraps were hardened... that is a fair enough assumption, but you could at least address the situation and not lie by omission. And what of Cotto's revenge? Do you even know if that was fought at the same weight? But again, you really never even mention this fight... BTW the second Cotto fight was fought at a higher weight... pre trooned out Canelo loses against Margarito.

As much as I wanna doggy pile and keep crapping on Margarito, I feel the need to keep things in perspective. A lot of people like to point out that his power dissipated after the controversy, but that’s kind of a misnomer. After Nazeem caught the illegal pads, Margarito fought: -Shane Mosley (that night) -Robert Garcia (at 154) -Pacquiao -Cotto rematch He then came back on again and off again but the Cotto fight is where his days on TV and in the big spotlight end. I don’t think his power faded as much as he just fought fighters that realized how to beat him and were just that good. On top of that (at the time), Mosley had zero losses by stoppage, Pacquiao had two losses by stoppage (AGES ago), and Cotto was always durable and would’ve made it to the final bell of the Pacquiao fight. I mean, seriously, if Kenny Bayless allowed Cotto to fight on through round 9, 10, and 11…at that point let him finish. :rolleyes: For all the talk of Margarito turning into a cream puff puncher, both Pacquiao and Cotto (rematch) looked roughed up in their respective post fight press conferences. I know Pacquiao just bludgeoned Tony and you wouldn’t be able to tell by just the scorecards, but Margarito bruised Pacquiao up. But the thing is everybody remembers is Pacquiao’s onslaught. Tony would land 3 or 4 but Pacquiao would come back with 8 or 10 of his own. The jig was up. I just think by then he was figured out. Mosley does very well against face first brawlers and on top of that I don’t think Margarito was making weight easily. His physique looks a lot different in his Mosley fight compared to his fights with Cotto or Pacquiao. And this is coming from a Puerto Rican. I think Margarito was tough enough to beat anyone if they didn’t bring a full gas tank. That’s all. If you had above average stamina and could be disciplined enough to box, he gets lamed out. There is just no way Margarito loses to a troon.

Silly post and I will tell you why: At least address the reason why that first Cotto fight was suspect. I take it you do not believe Margarito's wraps were hardened... that is a fair enough assumption, but you could at least address the situation and not lie by omission. And what of Cotto's revenge? Do you even know if that was fought at the same weight? But again, you really never even mention this fight... BTW the second Cotto fight was fought at a higher weight... Margarito was fighting for WBO since 2001, at some point the body detoriates with that fighting style. It’s not safety first.

Canelo punishes that walking/talking punching bag.

Margarito didn't show a whole lot of pop after the handwrap fiasco. Mosley put a savage beating on the Tornado and his skull never really recovered. I have to think Canelo beats most versions of Margarito without loaded wraps. As much as I wanna doggy pile and keep crapping on Margarito, I feel the need to keep things in perspective. A lot of people like to point out that his power dissipated after the controversy, but that’s kind of a misnomer. After Nazeem caught the illegal pads, Margarito fought: -Shane Mosley (that night) -Robert Garcia (at 154) -Pacquiao -Cotto rematch He then came back on again and off again but the Cotto fight is where his days on TV and in the big spotlight end. I don’t think his power faded as much as he just fought fighters that realized how to beat him and were just that good. On top of that (at the time), Mosley had zero losses by stoppage, Pacquiao had two losses by stoppage (AGES ago), and Cotto was always durable and would’ve made it to the final bell of the Pacquiao fight. I mean, seriously, if Kenny Bayless allowed Cotto to fight on through round 9, 10, and 11…at that point let him finish. :rolleyes: For all the talk of Margarito turning into a cream puff puncher, both Pacquiao and Cotto (rematch) looked roughed up in their respective post fight press conferences. I know Pacquiao just bludgeoned Tony and you wouldn’t be able to tell by just the scorecards, but Margarito bruised Pacquiao up. But the thing is everybody remembers is Pacquiao’s onslaught. Tony would land 3 or 4 but Pacquiao would come back with 8 or 10 of his own. The jig was up. I just think by then he was figured out. Mosley does very well against face first brawlers and on top of that I don’t think Margarito was making weight easily. His physique looks a lot different in his Mosley fight compared to his fights with Cotto or Pacquiao. And this is coming from a Puerto Rican. I think Margarito was tough enough to beat anyone if they didn’t bring a full gas tank. That’s all. If you had above average stamina and could be disciplined enough to box, he gets lamed out.

Bottomline is Margarito has the cojones that Canelo has not. After round six when the lactic acid builds up Margo is going to put on the gas and make ginger quit. But that fight would never been made, Canelo is not going into these type of fights or else he wouldve fought GGG 4 years sooner. Canelo does not have power at 147, couldn't put a dent in Matthew Hatton and Ndou and he is going to chop down the boogey man ? Aint happening. Marg absolutley demolished the peak version of Cotto at 147 and had him beg for mercy, that fight would never have been made in the first place, you could not get these two in the ring together and it would not be because of Marg. You have GOT to be kidding me. Let’s assume Margarito never cheated. I’m willing to accept that because even if he did (or didn’t) use plaster in the majority of his fights, he was still a voluminous puncher that suffocated opponents, HOWEVER… He beat a prime Cotto, sure but when you have ever seen Canelo absolutely sucking wind aside perhaps the Bivol fight when by then he had gone up to his fifth weight class. Cotto’s kryptonite was high tempo. I like to think that, in hindsight, Margarito was a good fighter but kind of gimmicky. He was so poor defensively that opponents would just tee off in the first half, shoot their load, and then be unable to get some breathing room in the second half. Hell, Joshua Clottey looked like Roy Jones, Jr. against Margarito in the first three rounds. Shoulder roll into clean right counter uppercuts and there’s even a sequence somewhere in there where Clottey throws three consecutive left hooks and lands them. Margarito would not beat Canelo. At 147…sure…but then I guess that’s kind of like saying Hatton beats Tito Trinidad at 140. I mean, does he? I mean, if Hatton does, would it really mean anything? Tito didn’t do diddly squat there. It’d be one of those victories that become significant retroactively…like say Margarito beating Martinez. Martinez wasn’t a big deal back then. YEARS AND YEARS later, Martinez would become one of the top guys in the sport. It would mean something, but not a whole lot. Not the same as something like, Barrera beating Naseem Hamed when Nadeem Hamed was THE guy.

Margo was getting KOes before he got busted for his hand wraps. Afterwards he had no more KOes and no notable wins at SWW. Canelo's main opponents started over 147 and a bunch of fights at 154. Margo would had done good in a couple of spots but would had gotten beaten.

Well, the Angulo fight was stopped prematurely and didn't see any reason for the stoppage. Angulo loss every round.

Bottomline is Margarito has the cojones that Canelo has not. After round six when the lactic acid builds up Margo is going to put on the gas and make ginger quit. But that fight would never been made, Canelo is not going into these type of fights or else he wouldve fought GGG 4 years sooner. Canelo does not have power at 147, couldn't put a dent in Matthew Hatton and Ndou and he is going to chop down the boogey man ? Aint happening. Marg absolutley demolished the peak version of Cotto at 147 and had him beg for mercy, that fight would never have been made in the first place, you could not get these two in the ring together and it would not be because of Marg. Silly post and I will tell you why: At least address the reason why that first Cotto fight was suspect. I take it you do not believe Margarito's wraps were hardened... that is a fair enough assumption, but you could at least address the situation and not lie by omission. And what of Cotto's revenge? Do you even know if that was fought at the same weight? But again, you really never even mention this fight... BTW the second Cotto fight was fought at a higher weight...

How do you figure that?:lol1: Based on what? Margarito was for all intensive purposes a pressure fighter. But when has Canelo ever been backed up by a pressure fighter? Bottomline is Margarito has the cojones that Canelo has not. After round six when the lactic acid builds up Margo is going to put on the gas and make ginger quit. But that fight would never been made, Canelo is not going into these type of fights or else he wouldve fought GGG 4 years sooner. Canelo does not have power at 147, couldn't put a dent in Matthew Hatton and Ndou and he is going to chop down the boogey man ? Aint happening. Marg absolutley demolished the peak version of Cotto at 147 and had him beg for mercy, that fight would never have been made in the first place, you could not get these two in the ring together and it would not be because of Marg.

That second paragraph describing Margarito was poetic. Lol In all honesty, I agree with the rest of your post. Margarito was a platinum level workhorse with decent power and an iron chin…but he gets beaten by Canelo. Absolutely. Why is this even debatable? The only version Margarito would beat is 147 Canelo. But that doesn’t mean much. Canelo was touch and go and didn’t accomplish anything hall of fame worthy nor was anything unique AT 147. :lol1: hyperbole at its best lol. Yeah I do not see the debate either. Yes, we can definitely give the TT his due without being ridiculous... Platinum level workhouse indeed! I mean Citron and Clottey, much less Martinez are solid scalps... And NOBODY was walking away from a fight with Margarito without a lot of epsom salt and aspirin! He was a bruiser. My theory would be this was partially why he was avoided.

Well if you are referring to illegal handwraps he only got popped in the Mosley fight so that is all you can pin on him Funny how after he got popped, Margacheato never scored a KO win again. El Tornado became El Light Breeze.

Beat Cintron, Clottey, Cotto, Martinez, close fight with Pwill could go either way but went to the American fighter. If Margarito called it a day after that he had a better resume than Floyd at 147. The way Margo fights is not sustainable long term so of course he is going to detoriate and take losses at some point. Margarito already fighting for the WBO belt in 2001 as brawler.

:lol1: You're turning a blind eye to what made him feared. We all know what that incredible punching power came from. Well if you are referring to illegal handwraps he only got popped in the Mosley fight so that is all you can pin on him

Gene Hackman tells Sharon Stone, in a scene from a movie about gunfighters, the "difference" between pigeons and when they are described as Eagles... "Oh that guy? shiat... first two shots went so far wide he didn't hit the barn door! etc, etc, etc... And so we have the cult of margarito... A big, wiry messican with steel cables for arms, large fists fashioned out of rocks... terminator like in his relentless approach... It only being a matter of time. Avoided by the likes of Floyd who was rumored to get wide eyed and short of breath when offered a drink made of Tequila, lime juice, sour mix and triple sec... because it sounded like Margarito... Margarito, half Golum half man... No pity, no empathy! And then story time is over and reality sets in. Margarito beat Cotto under very questionable circumstances ahem!! He lost to every other marque fighter that he fought, including Cotto the second time... Mayorga who I would put slightly above Margarito's level beat an elite fighter TWICE! when rematched...By contrast. Sure Marg was a bruiser... But against all A level guys with the exception of perhaps Sergio Martinez and the "questionable" win against Cotto, he lost... Margarito was definitely a workhorse and he did beat other workman like fighters like Citron and Clottey... He was also a fight where one earned their pay in bruised bones and flesh... With that said? Canelo would do what Pac, Shane Cotto did... That second paragraph describing Margarito was poetic. Lol In all honesty, I agree with the rest of your post. Margarito was a platinum level workhorse with decent power and an iron chin…but he gets beaten by Canelo. Absolutely. Why is this even debatable? The only version Margarito would beat is 147 Canelo. But that doesn’t mean much. Canelo was touch and go and didn’t accomplish anything hall of fame worthy nor was anything unique AT 147.