Does Boxing's respectability as a legitimate sport still exist at this point?

And who are they? where are they competing? whats their record? who did they beat? I think that's impossible to know.

Anyone who is better at 1 vs 1 combat situations with zero rules. And who are they? where are they competing? whats their record? who did they beat?

Lol, it has punches, knees, elbows, kicks, throws, chokes, other submissions, fights continuing on the ground etc b..b...b...ut if they only allowed biting though!!! Biting? You don't know that there is much more they can't do than biting? So who out there is favoured to beat them in a 1 vs 1 combat situation with zero rules? Anyone who is better at 1 vs 1 combat situations with zero rules.

TBH, I don't know that Ngannou performing so well is that much worse for boxing than Rolly getting a title shot at 140 having never fought at 140, and coming off a KO loss at 135, then being literally gifted a belt by a corrupt ref.

There are only 578 fighters contracted to Ngannou's former Mixed Martial Arts Organisation 'That number covers all weight classes, both male and female'. The UFCs own website allows you to check this. They have 948 fighters on their roster currently, again thats more than basically every major boxing promotion on the planet combined. 73 different countries represented, and the UFC has held 11 events outside of the US this year, in 2019 before Covid hit they were at 20 a year. The UFCs current p4p rankings have more nationalities represented than Rings current top 10. The Heavyweight Champion of any mixed Martial arts organisation is not a World Champion 'Because it is not a open class sport, and the participation levels are too low'. How many sports are there out there where the "world champion" is competing against a talent pool as small as boxings? again, throwing stones in glass houses with this. Boxing participation levels are drawn from the entire World 'The entire World, And so is MMAs. Not sure why you'd think otherwise? Ngannou has now actually gone full circle, and entered into a true global combat sport 'That is essentially what has happened, and he cannot tap-out in this sport'. A "true global combat" sport lol. Outside of a handful of promotions in the UK and US there are more MMA promotions operating at a decent scale on a regular basis around the world than boxing promotions. And the UFC itself, even Bellator and PFL, tour internationally. The UFC has a much greater global reach than any boxing promotion. The biggest live crowds ever for a fight in both mainland Europe and Asia are from MMA promotions. If you were to break it down country by country I bet a lot of the biggest combat sports events held in many countries would be UFC events due to its touring nature. At this stage, either they're both "global combat sports", or neither are. Note: Boxing was a progression from Mixed Martial Arts. Boxing was a progression from no holds barred fighting, and for whatever reason? Mankind decided that boxing was going to be the way, that two men at the pinnacle of combat competition have a duel' It has been that way ever since, and this is still the situation now. Okay okay boxing was a progression from a sport that didnt exist until the 1990s. Got it. But it is not the pinnacle of combat sports, because boxing is Boxing is the pinnacle of combat sports because a bunch of old MMA fighters and Youtubers now account for at least 50% of the time anyone outside of the boxing bubble pays attention to the sport, and the HW champ and arguably biggest actual boxing star just got beaten up by an 0-0 in boxing 37 year old MMA guy? thats your main take away from this?

Bold is false. MMA has many rules and restrictions and thus a champion in that sport is only a champion in that sport, nothing more. Lol, it has punches, knees, elbows, kicks, throws, chokes, other submissions, fights continuing on the ground etc b..b...b...ut if they only allowed biting though!!! So who out there is favoured to beat them in a 1 vs 1 combat situation with zero rules?

Boxing refining itself into having more rules so it can be sanctioned as a sport and more socially acceptable does not = "it evolved from MMA", its a weird angle that I think some boxing fans are trying to comfort themselves with ie pretending that boxing has already been challenged by a rival combat sport in the past the way it is by MMA now, and that people eventually "chose" boxing instead, so everythings gonna be fine. ​ ALL combat sports have extremely small talent pools. There are around 20k active pro boxers on the planet typically. About 1000 HWs. The UK generally has about 50 active at any one time. Its a bigger talent pool than MMA, but probably not by anywhere near as much as you'd expect nowadays, and all of it combined (plus all other combat sports) is still tiny as **** compared to ball sports. So its a throwing stones in glass houses situation. As far as the levels comment, there ARE levels in MMA though, i'll give you an example sticking with HWs. Greg Velasco is the current HW champ in CFFC, a domestic American promotion, pretty small time. He just recently went on Dana Whites Contender Series and lost, failing to earn a UFC contract. He is clearly a level below someone like Phil De Fries, the current HW champ of KSW, the biggest promotion in Europe, Phil was once in the UFC, where he went 2-3. Phil is also clearly a level below someone like Anatoliy Malykhin, the current HW champ in One FC, which is the biggest promotion in Asia and probably the 3rd biggest MMA promotion globally. And Malykhin is no ****ing way beating Ngannou or Jon Jones. Btw something to take on board here is the UFC has around 1000 fighters signed to its roster at any one time these days. Thats a larger roster than PBC, Top Rank, Golden Boy, Matchroom, Boxxer and Queensberry combined, in a sport with a smaller total talent pool. ​ Just had a quick check and the UFC currently has 74 active HWs out of a total active HW talent pool of 250. So thats over a quarter of the entire pool, and obviously people work their way up to the UFC so are fighting HWs outside of it first. In reality Ngannou is more proven as a top competitor in his sport than Fury is in his. Fury has had 35 fights across 15 years and once you get past Wlad and Wilder his third best win is.....? Shyte? Del Boy? the Swede that nobody had heard of at the time? Steve Cunningham? In 20 MMA fights Ngannou fought a third of the current top 15 plus two more guys who were ranked in the top 10 at the time he faced them. So who is the real world champion really? There are only 578 fighters contracted to Ngannou's former Mixed Martial Arts Organisation 'That number covers all weight classes, both male and female'. When I was in high school, there were more pupils in my school that Ngannou's former fight organization. The Heavyweight Champion of any mixed Martial arts organisation is not a World Champion 'Because it is not a open class sport, and the participation levels are too low'. Boxing is not just one organisation, which consist of a few 100 fighters. Ngannou was only competing against a few 100 fighters, maybe not even that to claim his so called World Title. In-fact it is not even called a World title, because there are no World Champions in mixed martial arts'. Boxing participation levels are drawn from the entire World 'The entire World, fighters can appear from nowhere. The participation levels are almost incalculable, there are so many levels to the sport from Amateur, domestic, European, to World level boxing'. Boxing is not a centralized sport, you cannot calculate at any given time the number of fighters all pursuing or targeting the goal of being a World Champion. Ngannou has now actually gone full circle, and entered into a true global combat sport 'That is essentially what has happened, and he cannot tap-out in this sport'. Note: Boxing was a progression from Mixed Martial Arts. Boxing was a progression from no holds barred fighting, and for whatever reason? Mankind decided that boxing was going to be the way, that two men at the pinnacle of combat competition have a duel' It has been that way ever since, and this is still the situation now. I understand that you do not want to accept this mate, but? That is just the way it is. And I understand your reasoning and thought processes. Because you are most likely thinking? Well those Mixed Martial Arts fighters, they have all these different disciplines, they can kick, they can wrestle on the fall, they might even jump up in the air and twirl around 'Amazing, that is fantastic'. But it is not the pinnacle of combat sports, because boxing is. Ultra Marathon Running is not the pinnacle of Athleticism, because Track and Field Athletics is.. Rally Car driving, Indy Car Racing, Motor bike racing is not the pinnacle of motor sports, because formula one is 'I have analysed this same similar situation in other sports, within my other posts in this thread'. Note: That just seems to be the way it is mate, and I believe this is due to the sociological, primordial, and theological reasons 'That go beyond the comprehension of what is being discussed within this thread, but I have touched upon these reasons in part'. A Heavyweight prize fight happened on the weekend, and now that weekend has gone 'And the game moves on, the game moves on mate it has not stopped. The game is in constant motion, boxing is not centralized. It is a open class sport, and open class sports exist everywhere. They are apart of the fundamental fabric of society'. The talent pool is the entire world, not just a few 100 Athletes who have signed on a piece of paper to fight in one organisation 'Boxing is on a completely different level to mixed martial arts in that respects'. Mixed Martial Arts is not separate from boxing, they are also prize fighters 'So theoretically they are apart of boxing, they are distance relatives. And like I have stated on this thread, at some point ether a instinctual or immaterial influence will force combat fighters to ask themselves the question? Can they compete in boxing'. That is all which has happened on the weekend mate, no sport really has been tarnished or destroyed 'Two men had a duel within the discipline of boxing, which historically has been the pinnacle litmus test of how two men have a duel. It was a close fight, and the game moves on'. The World moves on, that is all.

I will always love boxing for all its faults, and will always watch it. Its got a great history and its aesthetically pleasing to watch and theres just something to the purity and simplicity of it. But I think anyone being honest with themselves knows that if we are judging it solely as a form of combat, or an arena where the best fighters prove themselves...once you realise that the best boxers on the planet would consistently get wrecked in MMA or even kickboxing/muay thai the big title fights etc kind of lose a lot of their gravity and legitimacy This is why I laugh when people talk about how boxing has more "prestige" just because the belts are old or whatever. UFC title fights are genuinely crowning the best unarmed combatant on the planet at their weight. And obviously this fight just now was extra bad because you've had a supposed "Jack of all trades master of none" surrender the ability to use most of his trades and STILL beat the **** out of a guy who was supposed to be the best HW boxer on the planet. Like what is Fury/Usyk even for anymore really? what does it prove? Bold is false. MMA has many rules and restrictions and thus a champion in that sport is only a champion in that sport, nothing more. once you realise that the best boxers on the planet would consistently get wrecked in MMA or even kickboxing/muay thai the big title fights etc kind of lose a lot of their gravity and legitimacy I strongly disagree. People should already know that a boxer would be at a big disadvantage in another combat sport, and vice versa. Realization isn't necessary.

When I talk about history, I am not talking about the 1990's mate 'I am talking about 100's of years ago in the past. I am talking about how boxing came from no holds barred fighting. Boxing was a progression from no holds barred fighting, and for whatever reason? Mankind decided that boxing was going to be the way, that two men at the pinnacle of combat competition have a duel' It has been that way ever since, and this is still the situation now. Boxing refining itself into having more rules so it can be sanctioned as a sport and more socially acceptable does not = "it evolved from MMA", its a weird angle that I think some boxing fans are trying to comfort themselves with ie pretending that boxing has already been challenged by a rival combat sport in the past the way it is by MMA now, and that people eventually "chose" boxing instead, so everythings gonna be fine. There are only a few 100 combat Athletes in a mixed martial arts organisation 'That is it'. When they rise to the top of that organisation, they cannot be classed as World Champions, quite simply? The participation levels are too low, and really it is not a open class combat sport. There is not domestic, or European levels 'In terms of participation levels, boxing is just a by far more vast sport'. ​ ALL combat sports have extremely small talent pools. There are around 20k active pro boxers on the planet typically. About 1000 HWs. The UK generally has about 50 active at any one time. Its a bigger talent pool than MMA, but probably not by anywhere near as much as you'd expect nowadays, and all of it combined (plus all other combat sports) is still tiny as fuck compared to ball sports. So its a throwing stones in glass houses situation. As far as the levels comment, there ARE levels in MMA though, i'll give you an example sticking with HWs. Greg Velasco is the current HW champ in CFFC, a domestic American promotion, pretty small time. He just recently went on Dana Whites Contender Series and lost, failing to earn a UFC contract. He is clearly a level below someone like Phil De Fries, the current HW champ of KSW, the biggest promotion in Europe, Phil was once in the UFC, where he went 2-3. Phil is also clearly a level below someone like Anatoliy Malykhin, the current HW champ in One FC, which is the biggest promotion in Asia and probably the 3rd biggest MMA promotion globally. And Malykhin is no fucking way beating Ngannou or Jon Jones. Btw something to take on board here is the UFC has around 1000 fighters signed to its roster at any one time these days. Thats a larger roster than PBC, Top Rank, Golden Boy, Matchroom, Boxxer and Queensberry combined, in a sport with a smaller total talent pool. ​ Ngannou was a Champion, of a organisation were he was competing against how many other fighters in his division? Not many mate 'Tell me how many athletes in total are in his former organisation, there are no World Champions in that sport'. Just had a quick check and the UFC currently has 74 active HWs out of a total active HW talent pool of 250. So thats over a quarter of the entire pool, and obviously people work their way up to the UFC so are fighting HWs outside of it first. In reality Ngannou is more proven as a top competitor in his sport than Fury is in his. Fury has had 35 fights across 15 years and once you get past Wlad and Wilder his third best win is.....? Shyte? Del Boy? the Swede that nobody had heard of at the time? Steve Cunningham? In 20 MMA fights Ngannou fought a third of the current top 15 plus two more guys who were ranked in the top 10 at the time he faced them. So who is the real world champion really?

Heavyweight boxing is different ESPECIALLY in this era. That is something that people who are shocked don't seem to realize. Today it's all about size and how hard you can hit and take a hit. That's all. No great technique or strategies. Fury is a sloppy fighter and has always been that way. Won the title in one of the worst championship fights in history. He is used to fight much smaller or weaker guys and bully and lean on them. Wilder is big but has extremely weak legs. Ngannou's legs are trunks and he is the first one Fury's faced that was big and strong enough to not be bullied or leaned on. THAT was Fury's problem. Yup, that's Fury's M.O. the Klitschko jab & grab and lay & pray. Fury holds and lays on the smaller opponents until they get tired from all the wrestling, and they get KO, example Steve Cunningham fight. Fury finally fights a guy about the same size as himself, the wrasstling tactics backfire and he doesn't know what to do, like a deer in headlights.

Are people still watching boxing fights? If you answered yes there goes your question

Boxing did not evolve from mixed martial arts. Even the first few years of the UFC are not mixed martial arts events, and were not called mixed martial arts at the time They were style vs style tournaments designed to find out what the best martial art was under an environment with minimal rules. Mixed martial arts is what evolved from the results and what was learned from those early tournaments. Again, MMA fighters going to boxing is purely a money thing, nothing else. The reason Floyd/Conor and Fury/Ngannou were boxing matches is no MMA promotion is going to be offering Floyd or Fury enough money to risk their public image by taking that kind of fight. Boxers and boxing promoters are already extremely risk averse when taking fights in their own sport and want to keep the 0 by any means possible. An obvious example of this is Claressa Shields, supposed GWOAT, taking MMA fights. Why? because when it comes to the womens version of the sport, MMA actually pays better. Also there have actually been plenty of boxers going into MMA, just not the massive names getting paid tens of millions. Again, its all about the money. Not boxing being seen as some prestigious ultimate litmus test. Also, forgot to address this on your previous post, RE: the "MMA doesnt have world champions" thing. In practice, what does that even mean really? what exactly makes Fury a "world champion" any more than Ngannou? When I talk about history, I am not talking about the 1990's mate 'I am talking about 100's of years ago in the past. I am talking about how boxing came from no holds barred fighting. Boxing was a progression from no holds barred fighting, and for whatever reason? Mankind decided that boxing was going to be the way, that two men at the pinnacle of combat competition have a duel' It has been that way ever since, and this is still the situation now. There are only a few 100 combat Athletes in a mixed martial arts organisation 'That is it'. When they rise to the top of that organisation, they cannot be classed as World Champions, quite simply? The participation levels are too low, and really it is not a open class combat sport. There is not domestic, or European levels 'In terms of participation levels, boxing is just a by far more vast sport'. Ngannou was a Champion, of a organisation were he was competing against how many other fighters in his division? Not many mate 'Tell me how many athletes in total are in his former organisation, there are no World Champions in that sport'. Boxing has actual world Champions, just like other individual sports such as Swimming, Cycling, Track and Field Athletics 'Because all the athletes from all different levels, from all over the world can compete against one another. The number is so high, it really cannot even be calculated'. The British Middle Weight boxing Champion, has to statistically compete against more professional fighters domestically in his own country than Conor Mcgregor did win his claimed to be World titles. Francis Ngannou is a Champion, there is no doubt about that 'But he is not a World Champion'. I have stated all that needs to be said in this thread, from my perspective 'I have just explained to you the situation of boxing. It is still the pinnacle of how two men decide to duel, that is just the way it has always been throughout history. Boxers are the combat athletes being challenged, they are the target and they are the standard. It is never the other way around'. Many boxers today most likely got up in the morning, to do some roadwork not really being that concerned about mixed martial fighters 'Because the game moves on mate, the sport of prized fighting moves on'. Note: Francis Ngannou has stepped onto a new battle field, one which he cannot tap-out on 'Who is he going to fight next? And is he going to win? This is just prize fighting' etc.

Agree on Fury, but the situation on Saturday shouldn't have existed and that's down to the WBC. They are a boxing organisation and are actually supposed to represent the interests of boxing. ​​​​​​The reigning WBC champ should never have been allowed to fight a debutant. I mean, that's actually in their rules. And they didn't only allow it, they encouraged it and made a special belt! That's right. And now Sulaiman is going to place Ngannou in their Top 10...

Boxing is still the litmus test of how two men duel 'Boxing came from Mixed Martial Arts, prize fighting progressed into boxing' This is something you are overlooking, mankind for-whatever reason, went from no holds barred fighting into boxing. Boxing rose up as the litmus test, the pinnacle of how two men have duel 'This is a historical fact'. Was the combat event which happened on the weekend, a boxing event or mixed martial arts event? It was a boxing event. Was Conor Mcgregor vs Floyd Mayweather Junior, a boxing event or mixed martial arts event? It was a boxing event. Whenever those other combat athletes rise to the top of their sports, the questions is always asked 'Can they compete in boxing, it is never the other way around. Whether you like to deny it or not, it is boxers who are being challenged. They are the targets, they have been the standard throughout history'. And I understand your argument, and reasoning? Because it some ways you would think boxing would not be the litmus test 'Because those other combat athletes, they have all these different area's in which they fight in'. Rally Drivers, drive in the snow, the rain, through storms, their cars fly through the air over hills and craters 'But formula one is still regarded as the pinnacle of motor sport'. Marathon Runners, run over 26 miles 'At a pace and intensity which is brutal. It is physiologically barbaric, there are ultra marathon runners compete understand life threatening conditions on many levels. There are Decathletes which perform at a very high level, over all track and field disciplines. But still the 100m event is regarded as the pinnacle of raw athleticism, they are the Heavyweights of Track and Field athletics' Other athletes from outside the sport, will at some point ask themselves the question? Can I compete with those athletes. Once again combat sports seems to have gone full circle, and all these mixed martial arts fighters want to progress into boxing. My argument is not about who would win in a street fight 'A sword fight was not a street fight, Cowboys did not have street fights. A discipline was created which men agreed upon, to be the litmus test of how they should duel'. That is what boxing is 'Boxers can continue to just get on within their sport, and not really be concerned with other combat sports. Because they are the fighters being challenge, you cannot deny this mate'. The weekend's events is not a negative on the sport of boxing, because when you really think about it? Two men wanted to test apart of their characters in a competitive discipline'. Boxing puts direct pressure on a certain point of a man's being 'This is why certain sports, are fundamental always important. Sports like Track and field Athletics, Swimming and Cycling. Because they are putting a concentrated pressure and test on a certain part of the athlete'. Boxing puts a concentrated pressure on a man 'You are going stand up, and you are going to fight. You are not going to go to the ground, you are not going to kick. And whatever you do? Do you tap-out'. On some level, that type of competition has a very in-depth profound primordial meaning 'It is just the way it is mate, from my understanding'. You still are not seeming to get it are you? Boxing is not entirely separate from Mixed Martial Arts 'Boxing came from Mixed Martial Arts'. All combat sports all exist in the same sphere of competition on different levels';. And many variations of combat sports have been created, people will try and get away from boxing 'But it is come full circle, and whenever combat Athletes rise to the top of their sport they will ask themselves the question? Can I challenge the best boxers in the world, it has never been the other way around'. So Tyson Fury fought Francis Ngannou, the fight was tougher than expected 'Francis Ngannou deserves credit'. But what exactly are people cornered about here? I am honestly unsure what damage people believe the weekend's fight has done to boxing? Francis Ngannou is ultimately a prize fighter. And he came back, that man came full circle back into boxing 'To Challenge Tyson Fury, the WBC World Heavyweight Champion'. Note: Ngannou has now stepped onto different battle field, and he cannot tap-out on this battle field 'That is all which has happened. And it has most likely happened many times before throughout history'. Who is Ngannou going to fight next? And will he come through that opponent? This is just prize fighting, and the pinnacle of how two men duel etc. Boxing did not evolve from mixed martial arts. Even the first few years of the UFC are not mixed martial arts events, and were not called mixed martial arts at the time They were style vs style tournaments designed to find out what the best martial art was under an environment with minimal rules. Mixed martial arts is what evolved from the results and what was learned from those early tournaments. Again, MMA fighters going to boxing is purely a money thing, nothing else. The reason Floyd/Conor and Fury/Ngannou were boxing matches is no MMA promotion is going to be offering Floyd or Fury enough money to risk their public image by taking that kind of fight. Boxers and boxing promoters are already extremely risk averse when taking fights in their own sport and want to keep the 0 by any means possible. An obvious example of this is Claressa Shields, supposed GWOAT, taking MMA fights. Why? because when it comes to the womens version of the sport, MMA actually pays better. Also there have actually been plenty of boxers going into MMA, just not the massive names getting paid tens of millions. Again, its all about the money. Not boxing being seen as some prestigious ultimate litmus test. Also, forgot to address this on your previous post, RE: the "MMA doesnt have world champions" thing. In practice, what does that even mean really? what exactly makes Fury a "world champion" any more than Ngannou?

The sport is OK, more or less. It's the current heavyweight boss - the man on top, as you call him - who's become scarcely respectable of late. Agree on Fury, but the situation on Saturday shouldn't have existed and that's down to the WBC. They are a boxing organisation and are actually supposed to represent the interests of boxing. ​​​​​​The reigning WBC champ should never have been allowed to fight a debutant. I mean, that's actually in their rules. And they didn't only allow it, they encouraged it and made a special belt!

You're overintellectualizing it. Literally the only reason this is happening is boxing paydays are much bigger than MMA paydays, and boxing is now open to also giving those paydays to none boxers right off the bat for their name value in order to try and boost the sports waning popularity. Nobody views boxing title fights as some "true" test of anything anymore. The only reason Ngannou got more credit and respect from the Fury fight than his MMA fights is because he had the balls and ability to go over to another sport and pull of a massive upset while seemingly being at a disadvantage, same way that Fury would get the more credit for going and winning a UFC title than anything hes done in boxing. it has nothing to do with boxing as sport or some imagined pretentious romanticized position it holds. Boxing is still the litmus test of how two men duel 'Boxing came from Mixed Martial Arts, prize fighting progressed into boxing' This is something you are overlooking, mankind for-whatever reason, went from no holds barred fighting into boxing. Boxing rose up as the litmus test, the pinnacle of how two men have duel 'This is a historical fact'. Was the combat event which happened on the weekend, a boxing event or mixed martial arts event? It was a boxing event. Was Conor Mcgregor vs Floyd Mayweather Junior, a boxing event or mixed martial arts event? It was a boxing event. Whenever those other combat athletes rise to the top of their sports, the questions is always asked 'Can they compete in boxing, it is never the other way around. Whether you like to deny it or not, it is boxers who are being challenged. They are the targets, they have been the standard throughout history'. And I understand your argument, and reasoning? Because it some ways you would think boxing would not be the litmus test 'Because those other combat athletes, they have all these different area's in which they fight in'. Rally Drivers, drive in the snow, the rain, through storms, their cars fly through the air over hills and craters 'But formula one is still regarded as the pinnacle of motor sport'. Marathon Runners, run over 26 miles 'At a pace and intensity which is brutal. It is physiologically barbaric, there are ultra marathon runners compete understand life threatening conditions on many levels. There are Decathletes which perform at a very high level, over all track and field disciplines. But still the 100m event is regarded as the pinnacle of raw athleticism, they are the Heavyweights of Track and Field athletics' Other athletes from outside the sport, will at some point ask themselves the question? Can I compete with those athletes. Once again combat sports seems to have gone full circle, and all these mixed martial arts fighters want to progress into boxing. My argument is not about who would win in a street fight 'A sword fight was not a street fight, Cowboys did not have street fights. A discipline was created which men agreed upon, to be the litmus test of how they should duel'. That is what boxing is 'Boxers can continue to just get on within their sport, and not really be concerned with other combat sports. Because they are the fighters being challenge, you cannot deny this mate'. The weekend's events is not a negative on the sport of boxing, because when you really think about it? Two men wanted to test apart of their characters in a competitive discipline'. Boxing puts direct pressure on a certain point of a man's being 'This is why certain sports, are fundamental always important. Sports like Track and field Athletics, Swimming and Cycling. Because they are putting a concentrated pressure and test on a certain part of the athlete'. Boxing puts a concentrated pressure on a man 'You are going stand up, and you are going to fight. You are not going to go to the ground, you are not going to kick. And whatever you do? Do you tap-out'. On some level, that type of competition has a very in-depth profound primordial meaning 'It is just the way it is mate, from my understanding'. You still are not seeming to get it are you? Boxing is not entirely separate from Mixed Martial Arts 'Boxing came from Mixed Martial Arts'. All combat sports all exist in the same sphere of competition on different levels';. And many variations of combat sports have been created, people will try and get away from boxing 'But it is come full circle, and whenever combat Athletes rise to the top of their sport they will ask themselves the question? Can I challenge the best boxers in the world, it has never been the other way around'. So Tyson Fury fought Francis Ngannou, the fight was tougher than expected 'Francis Ngannou deserves credit'. But what exactly are people cornered about here? I am honestly unsure what damage people believe the weekend's fight has done to boxing? Francis Ngannou is ultimately a prize fighter. And he came back, that man came full circle back into boxing 'To Challenge Tyson Fury, the WBC World Heavyweight Champion'. Note: Ngannou has now stepped onto different battle field, and he cannot tap-out on this battle field 'That is all which has happened. And it has most likely happened many times before throughout history'. Who is Ngannou going to fight next? And will he come through that opponent? This is just prize fighting, and the pinnacle of how two men duel etc.

Francis Ngannou came into this sport to do what? Survive, and progress 'And he has achieved more in one fight, in terms of gaining international respect and credit than he did in his entire mixed martial arts career'. If a Non-track and field athlete was to fancy themselves that they could beat the best 100m sprinter in the world 'And if they were to race them, and give them a close race'. This result in all honesty, does not have a negative effect on the sport of Track and Field Athletics 'Because those sports are open class sports, if a Athlete believes they are good enough well? Then come and compete'. Boxing is still the litmus test between men who want to duel it out 'Going back in history, men have had sword fights, cowboys have at duels the list goes on'. But it is boxing which historically has been the combat duel, which has been the greatest test 'If this was not true, then Francic Ngannou, Conor Mcgregor would not of soon as they had risen to the top of their sports, then had aspirations to challenge whoever was deemed as the best fighter in boxing'. The equivalent does not happen in boxing 'It is boxers that are being challenged, they are the athletes who are yearned after. Boxers are the fighters being challenge, not other combat sports athletes'. You're overintellectualizing it. Literally the only reason this is happening is boxing paydays are much bigger than MMA paydays, and boxing is now open to also giving those paydays to none boxers right off the bat for their name value in order to try and boost the sports waning popularity. Nobody views boxing title fights as some "true" test of anything anymore. The only reason Ngannou got more credit and respect from the Fury fight than his MMA fights is because he had the balls and ability to go over to another sport and pull of a massive upset while seemingly being at a disadvantage, same way that Fury would get the more credit for going and winning a UFC title than anything hes done in boxing. it has nothing to do with boxing as sport or some imagined pretentious romanticized position it holds.

- - From no boxing rating to Boxrec Boxing Rating, #589, Francis is on a roll to decimate the rest of the heavy pretenders taking up space in the rankings. Stay away from AJ though. Better $$$ than Blubber pays, but he'd Knock you spark out!!!

And what if they áre allowed to kick but maybe that isn't an advantage enough...? Erickson was a high level wrestler with rudimentary striking skills even by the standards of early 00s HW MMA. Shannon Briggs beating him under kickboxing rules is a big victory to you? Shannon even admitted later that he was close to hitting the canvas because the kicks were fucking him up, and that if Erickson had stayed at that range instead of getting overconfident and coming in to punching range he probably would have won. So yeah, Briggs almost lost a pure striking match to a wrestler with shitty striking. If you're gonna scramble for one of the few examples of a boxer not looking like a bum outside of boxing rules then at least go for the tried and tested Mercer/Tim fight, part of Rays illustrious 1-1 MMA career and 0-2 kickboxing career. Or better still that time Botha managed to beat Le Banner in kickboxing, granted he went 4-12 in total but still.... Punchers chance is a thing, thats all. Anybody who knows anything knows that there have always been 2 golden rules when it comes to street fighting a) Don't go to the ground b) Kicks have no place in streetfighting ​ Rule no1 is based around the concept that other people could unexpectedly join in when you're on the ground and vulnerable, or that your opponent might have a concealed knife. Rule no2 is based around wearing clothes/shoes that dont allow for full range of movement​, or a surface being slippery. Its all just circumstantial shyt that isnt really relevant to 1 v 1 unarmed combat and who the best fighters are. He told of a guy who thought it was a good idea to pull someone into his guard during a fight. Was this in like 1995? pulling guard has been considered a bad idea in MMA for decades. Boxing rules any streetfight. If by street"fight" you mean people getting sucker punched, stabbed, shot, multiple attackers vs one person etc. I'm sure I could "beat" Fury if I snuck up on him with a brick when hes asleep...who gives a fuck about that? its got nothing to do with why combat sports exist ie to find out who the best fighters are.

Yeah...the crucial difference here is boxing rules ban all the skills the other guy could use to easily win a fight. Whereas MMA rules allow the full range of a boxers skillset to be used, so do kickboxing and Muay Thai rules, and in those cases the boxers lose not because the rules artificially handicap them but because their actual fighting skillset is too one dimensional and has too many holes. Yes but since biting&nutcrackingMMA is a completely fictional thing with a talent pool of exactly zero people outside of perhaps a Siberian prison or two, its a redundant argument. MMA exists, is a major combat sport, and has a now decent sized talent pool of people who would easily kick the **** out of boxers in any kind of fight that isnt a boxing match. ​ And what if they áre allowed to kick but maybe that isn't an advantage enough...? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjHV_mURbCQ Any fight that isn't a boxing match =SIGH= the streetfighting argument MMA is in the exact same place when it comes to their arguments as what used to be their biggest critique targets ..... Traditional Martial Arts. TMA default quote has always been "but on the streets/but if we could use all our tools..." which was always ridiculed by MMA and now look at them.. Anybody who knows anything knows that there have always been 2 golden rules when it comes to street fighting a) Don't go to the ground b) Kicks have no place in streetfighting Still, MMA'ers still don't seem to remember these rules. Maybe because they came late to the fighting game.. I know a MMA guy and teacher who quit because it became too much a sport. He told of a guy who thought it was a good idea to pull someone into his guard during a fight. He was picked up and dumped on bicycle rack. Couldn't walk for 3 weeks... There was a guy who took someone down and was taunting him while on top. The taken-down guy's mom passed by and kicked him in head. Out cold. Now go put that on your resumé, KTFO by someone's mom.... Grappling is useless as soon as there is more than one assailant Boxing rules any streetfight. That isn't even argument, old school MMA guys even agree. Complement it with basic takedown defense and you will come out on top of basically any streetfight you will face in your life. But you believe what you want to believe. I'm off..living my life, this arguing is taking too much of my time (still don't understand what you're doing on a boxing forum but whatever...)