Casual Fans overlooking Fury's mastery of his Era?

This was a good thread to reread, for a number of reasons. Good discussion about the lineal in here billeau2

You are not acknowledging history, you are ignoring history and trying to impose your own pedantic opinions in its place. There was no historical precedent or justification for Wlad Klitschko being recognised as lineal champ when he never beat a lineal champion in the ring and was never the undisputed champ. There was no historical precedent or justification for Tyson Fury still being the lineal champion after he announced his retirement, relinquished all his championship belts and handed in his boxing licence. And there was no historical precedent or justification for Fury, when he came back without any title belts, fighting unranked bums like Seferi and Pianetta in "lineal title defences" Young Fellow, https://boxing.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_lineal_boxing_world_champions Your argument is not with me, alone. But to show that YOU are not unique, or a lone voice in the wilderness - Others who share your interpretation of the world around you, and your flair for rhetoric and rebuttal: https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial I hope that this doesn't silence your enthusiasm. I am eager for more of your blood.

It was understandable that the brothers didn't want to fight each other. But the fact that Vitali was the WBC champion at that time and most fans, including me, thought he was better than Wlad, was the main reason why I never agreed with the view that Wlad should be regarded as the lineal champ. It made no sense to me back then and it still makes no sense to me now. And it was while thinking about that whole mess that I had a kind of eureka moment and realised that, with 4 world title belts and several gaps in the man-who-beat-the-man line of succession, there was no such thing as a lineal title any more and no reason to even think about who should be regarded as the lineal champ when there was no undisputed champ. Vitali was 100% better than Wlad. I loved watching Vitali and hated Wlad lol.

Also, Vitali was No. 2 so they made the exception knowing that 1 and 2 would never fight. It was understandable that the brothers didn't want to fight each other. But the fact that Vitali was the WBC champion at that time and most fans, including me, thought he was better than Wlad, was the main reason why I never agreed with the view that Wlad should be regarded as the lineal champ. It made no sense to me back then and it still makes no sense to me now. And it was while thinking about that whole mess that I had a kind of eureka moment and realised that, with 4 world title belts and several gaps in the man-who-beat-the-man line of succession, there was no such thing as a lineal title any more and no reason to even think about who should be regarded as the lineal champ when there was no undisputed champ.

Yes, Chagaev was ranked No 3. But back then the Ring title and the lineal were regarded as more or less synonymous. Also, Vitali was No. 2 so they made the exception knowing that 1 and 2 would never fight.

Well, Fury's been around awhile now, breaking into the top 10 eleven years ago. Hrgovic and Zhang are fairly new entries to the top. Usyk is up next, and Joshua and Parker have collectively lost to Joyce, Whyte, Joshua, Ruiz, Usyk twice - 6 losses. All while Fury sat on the throne undefeated. Calling him out for being a jackass, failing to live up to commitments, running his mouth at 10 times the speed he actually fights, failing to do 10 situps for seasoned MMA boxer Ngannou and having a thin resume, especially for a guy who's sat on the title for 8 freekin' years? 100% legitimate. But there he is, still undefeated, still commanding millions and millions. Still the holder of the Sullivan, Johnson, Dempsey, Louis title. What can I say? He's a hard guy to defend. Maybe Usyk will knock him off. Fury is lucky in the score card TWICE. The value of his oppomets when he fought them relate to his peers of other lineal heavyweight champions is poor.

History will indeed look fondly on that Chisora trilogy. Yes, especially as it came hot on the heels of Fury's other trilogy with Wilder. That trilogy double, with another title holder and several undefeated contenders all clamouring for a shot at Tyson, was indeed a historic achievement.

I always founds Wlad's supposed establishment of new lineage when he beat Ruslan Chagaev a little dubious. The Ring recognised it too, but wasn't Chagaev actually ranked 3? Yes, Chagaev was ranked No 3. But back then the Ring title and the lineal were regarded as more or less synonymous.

History will indeed look fondly on that Chisora trilogy.

I don't disagree as a whole, and a lot of Fury’s "Era Dominance" has to do with Joshua going on a losing spree. In his defense, Whyte was ranked, revenged Povetkin and in the estimation of many, was going to expose Fury, and Chisora, admittedly an unnecessary fight, was coming off a mild upset over Pulev, one of his best career wins. The Wilder trilogy was epic, started with a draw and ended with Fury being dumped multiple times. Not a huge Fury guy myself, but I chose to off some balance against all the fan frustration. The thing with me is I knew he didn't want to fight Joshua especially before joshua was ruined by Andy ruiz The fury retirement to me was a blatant duck of joshua because had he been active that fight would have been pressed and even while he retired it was what most people wanted I personally seen through the hype around wilder and even in the build up to the fight I didn't beleive wilder was that good either I think fury has messed boxing fans around for years and somehow he gets credit for beating wilder who fought who exactly ? Luis ortiz twice in a life and death battles Wilder and fury are both super over rated and both ducked good fighters their whole career But furys the worst

All top heavyweights, yup. Most having lost to another. except for the newer ones, and Fury and Usyk.....coming up soon to settle it. But only one of them lost to Fury and only fanboy casuals give fighters credit for victories they didn't achieve themselves.

Acknowledging history is hardly Pedantic. I know it's beating a dead horse though. You are not acknowledging history, you are ignoring history and trying to impose your own pedantic opinions in its place. There was no historical precedent or justification for Wlad Klitschko being recognised as lineal champ when he never beat a lineal champion in the ring and was never the undisputed champ. There was no historical precedent or justification for Tyson Fury still being the lineal champion after he announced his retirement, relinquished all his championship belts and handed in his boxing licence. And there was no historical precedent or justification for Fury, when he came back without any title belts, fighting unranked bums like Seferi and Pianetta in "lineal title defences"

You can't count fighting the same guy over and over again after you beat them as historically beneficial to his record That's like if aj sparked povetkin 3 times ,it's just stalling and a roadblock for other potential fights of top 10 guys Realistically going by your list he's fought 6 guys in the top 50 in 10 years It's not good He fought wladimir,wilder and id give him the first chisora fight as decent fights The rest were shop worn or had already being kod multiple times (whyte,chisora) when there was plenty oppertunity to catch them fresher (whyte) It's a shame because Fury could have been in some cracking fights I don't disagree as a whole, and a lot of Fury’s "Era Dominance" has to do with Joshua going on a losing spree. In his defense, Whyte was ranked, revenged Povetkin and in the estimation of many, was going to expose Fury, and Chisora, admittedly an unnecessary fight, was coming off a mild upset over Pulev, one of his best career wins. The Wilder trilogy was epic, started with a draw and ended with Fury being dumped multiple times. Not a huge Fury guy myself, but I chose to off some balance against all the fan frustration.

That's 6 of this era's top 10 HWs you named there, and Fury has beaten only one of them. And you call that "mastery of his era"? Go and give your head a wobble, mate. All top heavyweights, yup. Most having lost to another. except for the newer ones, and Fury and Usyk.....coming up soon to settle it.

Tunney and Marciano are dead. And not even a guy as pedantic as you would go so far as to claim that Gene will be the lineal heavyweight champion till the end of eternity, because the Grim Reaper didn't cut him down in the ring. Acknowledging history is hardly Pedantic. I know it's beating a dead horse though.

Fury could've done a lot better, tending the flock and collecting hardware. That long medical sabbatical didn't help in the early phase of his reign, but it certainly may have saved his life, so the good folks will cut him slack there. Even now, however, he's big on issuing challenges and making other provocative statements designed to rile people up, and the fans have grown pretty tired of the show, and just want him to fight, and preferably, fight the best! But looking back carefully at the Tyson Fury era of Heavyweight history, we can see that he hasn't done as badly as all that, with 10 fights against the 50 best of the era (based on a pretty good list of the 50 best). What are your thoughts about how he's been doing? This Generation 2015-2025 - Heavyweights 2013 - 2023 1. Tyson Fury 2. Deontay Wilder 2. Deontay Wilder 2. Deontay Wilder 3. Oleksandr Usyk 4. Anthony Joshua 5. Wladimir Klitschko 6. Zhilei Zhang 7. Andy Ruiz Jr 8. Luis Ortiz 9. Alexander Povetkin 10.Dillian Whyte 11.Joe Joyce 12.Daniel Dubois 13.Filip Hrgovic 14.Jarrell Miller 15.Joseph Parker 16.Kubrat Pulev 17.Otto Wallin 18.Frank Sanchez 19.Robert Helenius 20.Derek Chisora 20.Derek Chisora 20.Derek Chisora 21. Arslanbek Makhmudov 22.Charles Martin 23.Carlos Takam 24.Martin Bakole 25.Jared Anderson 26.Tomasz Adamek 27.Chris Arreola 28.Tony Thompson 29.Bermane Stiverne 30.Michael Hunter 31.Tony Yoka 32.Johann Duhaupas 33.Bakhodir Jalolov 34.Efe Ajagba 35.Daniel Dubois 36.David Haye 37.Bryant Jennings 38.Agit Kabayel 39.Gerald Washington 40.Murat Gassiev 41.Jermaine Franklin 42.Shannon Briggs 43.Dominic Breazeale 44.Adam Kownacki 45.Ruslan Chagaev 46.Fabio Wardley 47.Christian Hammer 48.Alexander Dimetrienko 49.Aleksandr Ustinov 50.Hugie Fury​​ The bullpen: Simon Kean , Zhan Kossobutskiy, Ivan Dychko, Mariuz Wach, Richard Torrez Jr., Stephen Shaw, Mairis Briedis, Ali Erin Demirezen, Oscar Rivas, Vladyslav Sirenko, David Price, Artur Szpilka, Eric Molina, Lucas Browne, Jerry Forrest, Francisco Pianeta, Lenier Pero, Jonathan Rice, Tom Schwarz, Travis Kaufman, Alex Leapai, Vyacheslav Glazkov, Demsey McKean, Kevin Lerena, Jerry Forrest, Rostislav Plechko, Izuagbe Ugonoh, Amir Mansour, Justice Huni, David Allen, Erkan Teper, Eddie Chambers, Sergey Kuzmin, Malik Scott, Edmund Gerber, Trevor Bryan, Nathan Gorman, Evgeny Romanov, Johnathan Guidry, Razvan Cojanu, Agron Smakici, Viktor Vykhryst, Jose Larduet, Bogdan Dinu, Andrey Fedosov, Attila Levin, David Adeleye, Michael Wallisch, Oleksandr Zakhozhyi, Frazier Clarke, Kingpin Johnson, Joe Cusumano, Mahoud "Manuel" Charr, Michael Polite Coffie, Audley Harrison, Kem Ljungquist, Dillon Carman, Junior Fa, Albert Sosnowski, Fres Oquendo, Mike Balogun, Andrii Rudenko, Marcin Siwy, Deontae Pettigrew, Derric Rossy, Mike Perez, Tre Lippe, Sam Sexton, Odlanier Solis, Joey Dawejko, Solomon Haumono, Przemyslaw Saleta, Kertson Manswell, Joe Hanks, Gurgen Hovhannisyan, Joey Abell, Hemi Ahio, Alexis Santos, Ebenezer Tetteh, Tor Hamer, Agron Smakici, Raphael Akpejiori, Joseph Goodall, Chazz Witherspoon, Darmani Rock, Joshua Tufte, Kelvin Price, Apti Davtaev, Miljan Rovcanin, George Arias, Seth Mitchell, Gary Cornish, Lenroy Thomas, Cassius Chaney, Bronco Billy Wright, James McKenzie Morrison, Kash Ali, Fred Kassi, Peter Kadiru, Adrian Granat, Sonny Conto, Franz Rill, Daniel Martz, Leif Larsen ​ You can't count fighting the same guy over and over again after you beat them as historically beneficial to his record That's like if aj sparked povetkin 3 times ,it's just stalling and a roadblock for other potential fights of top 10 guys Realistically going by your list he's fought 6 guys in the top 50 in 10 years It's not good He fought wladimir,wilder and id give him the first chisora fight as decent fights The rest were shop worn or had already being kod multiple times (whyte,chisora) when there was plenty oppertunity to catch them fresher (whyte) It's a shame because Fury could have been in some cracking fights

Joshua and Parker have collectively lost to Joyce, Whyte, Joshua, Ruiz, Usyk twice - 6 losses. That's 6 of this era's top 10 HWs you named there, and Fury has beaten only one of them. And you call that "mastery of his era"? Go and give your head a wobble, mate.

Or Tunney, or Marciano, right? Study. Tunney and Marciano are dead. And not even a guy as pedantic as you would go so far as to claim that Gene will be the lineal heavyweight champion till the end of eternity, because the Grim Reaper didn't cut him down in the ring.

Well, he wins because he only fights the old, fat and not so good! No fights or wins from him vs Joshua, Usky, Hrgovic, Zhang or Parker ... the current best in the division. He busted for PEDs on the Hammer fight, beat a 39+ year old Wlad, made 3 fights vs. a man that I think is mere chinny contender, while being docked five times is five separate fights. And had several controversial decisions given to him! One vs a 0-0 boxer, the other vs. a garden variety Englishman not tanked in top top 50! History will not be kind to him. Well, Fury's been around awhile now, breaking into the top 10 eleven years ago. Hrgovic and Zhang are fairly new entries to the top. Usyk is up next, and Joshua and Parker have collectively lost to Joyce, Whyte, Joshua, Ruiz, Usyk twice - 6 losses. All while Fury sat on the throne undefeated. Calling him out for being a jackass, failing to live up to commitments, running his mouth at 10 times the speed he actually fights, failing to do 10 situps for seasoned MMA boxer Ngannou and having a thin resume, especially for a guy who's sat on the title for 8 freekin' years? 100% legitimate. But there he is, still undefeated, still commanding millions and millions. Still the holder of the Sullivan, Johnson, Dempsey, Louis title. What can I say? He's a hard guy to defend. Maybe Usyk will knock him off.

I don't really get it. Is this list saying that Otto Wallin is the 17th best HW of 'this generation'...? Fury beat complacent Wlad, jerked him around for a year and ducked the rematch, then beat Wilder. That's it for Fury's resume. Active fighters are in motion. Wilder has dropped. So has Wallin.