If Uysk fights Fury and defeats him where would he rank as an all time great heavyweight ?

It's hard to say for fury might be the weakest hw champ ever. He has talent yes more so a size advantage as well. Yet who has he beat, wasn't he juiced to the gills vs Klitschko. Then dodged a rematch cause the cocaine whisky n steroids caused paranoia depression. He beat Wilder who was gifted a belt n beat absolutely no1 to win or defend his belt a shot A.J will be his best win

he wont beat fury but is a great fighter and a hall of famer... if he beats him, idk what it makes him

It is funny people saying beating Fury wont land him into top5 ATG, but same people are saying Fury is already top5. I think if he beats Fury and retire, he is top 5 ATG boxer. Achieved all the glory in amateurs, cruiser weight and heavy weight.

I think that the boxing community and historians would have to rate him high as an ATG boxer in general. I think it has been shown in history that staying undefeated at CW and HW is very difficult, damn near impossible. Marciano did it at HW, but does he have the resume Usyk would have if he beat Fury? With that said, if Fury finds his balls and fights Usyk, and is up for it, he will beat him. A lot of people see Fury as this big sloppy doofus but he is very skilled, fast, crafty, dirty and really big and tall. Fury has also gotten better over the years so I really don’t want to hear about “Cunningham doe”.

I struggle with the idea that his Cruiserweight reign isn't any kind of factor. His 'greatness' surely includes that reign. In fact, the guys he beat were probably heavyweights by the standards of many of the competition we'd be putting him up against. 6ft 3in and going into the ring at a fair bit over 200 pounds... They're not his 'best' wins, but Gassiev, Briedis and Bellew add depth to his resume regardless of them cutting weight to get to Cruiserweight. It certainly does. My comment is purely because it mentions Heavyweight in the thread title. Times have changed and today we have to take into account 6'5" and above guys and 240+ lbs guys. So, in this era, the 4 best are Fury, Usyk, Wilder, and Joshua and the guy who beats the most on this list and loses the least against others would be the top of this era.

ALi beat everyone of his time. Usyk needs to beat everyone of this time. Usyks beat Josh at present. Usyk needs fury, Wilder and then the rest of the top ten then you can say he beat everyone. Zhang, Flip, Sanchez, Joyce too i guess but probably not neccesary. Not sure how long Usyk will hang around if he beats Fury and Wilder.

And that point is? Tunney beat several men who fought as heavyweights. That is my point. He was an excellent pound for pound fighter. Johnson, Dempsey, and Marciano all have key wins under 200 pounds. In fact all of Dempsey's and Marciano wins happened when they were under 200 pounds. Do you consider them heavyweights by the same standards? I do not consider weight to be anything more than one of many factors... Liston may have weighed 220ish but was a big heavyweight. compare his bone structure, his hands, etc to the size of Uysk for example... marciano walked around at least over 200 pounds, ALL the heavyweights that you consider small today made a conscious choice to fight at a lower weight because it was a benefit to them. They could easily have come in much bigger. Who would win? a Joe Louis fighting at around 190, or a later lewis fighting at about 220?

I would rank him all-time, about the same as I'd rank Francis Ngannou, if HE should beat Fury. .....and I give them each about the same chance.​

If he beats AJ, Fury, and Wilder, he would be the best of this era. Overall? I do not believe this era is that great and he has fought only very few HW fights so I won't rank him that high...perhaps top 25 or top 30. So far, he's only fought and beaten one of the other generally accepted top 3. He still needs to fight Fury and Wilder to get the best of this era name. I struggle with the idea that his Cruiserweight reign isn't any kind of factor. His 'greatness' surely includes that reign. In fact, the guys he beat were probably heavyweights by the standards of many of the competition we'd be putting him up against. 6ft 3in and going into the ring at a fair bit over 200 pounds... They're not his 'best' wins, but Gassiev, Briedis and Bellew add depth to his resume regardless of them cutting weight to get to Cruiserweight.

The point made by Marg and I made the same point, is that Tunney was better at Light heavy, and calling another light heavy a heavy (Gibbs) does not change that point. He beat an in shape and active Dempsey when he was age 31 and 32 twice. Winning 18 or 19 of 20 rounds. IMO, Tunney on film is shown as alert on the count of four and IMO could have gotten up earlier, but as it was Dempsey ignored the rule and did not go to a neutral corner rule. Tunney by the way looks excellent on film. He combines footwork, a nice jab, good foot speed / hand speed and has great stamina and chin the Marine does. I know none of these small men, including Dempsey, would do as well as they did today. Heavyweights have gone up THREE Wight classes in fight weight since, From 190-200 lbs, currier weights, past the bridge weight division, and into the super heavyweight division. Most of the top then today are over 230+ pounds and 6'2" tall. I believe size when combined with skill matters in boxing. Check out my thread titled top 15 heavyweight prospects which I update quartley. It's due soon! You find an abundance of super heavyweights. The game has changed at heavyweight. Some historians deny this trend. I say its here to stay and point out to them the obvious as the last time a small guy was champion was Mike Spinks in the mid 1980's, and he was in the right place fighting and older Larry Holmes. https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/boxing-forums/non-stop-boxing/31535564-dr-z-s-top-15-heavyweight-prospects/page3#post31740122​ - Dr. Z. And that point is? Tunney beat several men who fought as heavyweights. That is my point. He was an excellent pound for pound fighter. Johnson, Dempsey, and Marciano all have key wins under 200 pounds. In fact all of Dempsey's and Marciano wins happened when they were under 200 pounds. Do you consider them heavyweights by the same standards?

He beat an in shape and active Dempsey when he was age 31 and 32 twice. Winning 18 or 19 of 20 rounds. IMO, Tunney on film is shown as alert on the count of four and IMO could have gotten up earlier, but as it was Dempsey ignored the rule and did not go to a neutral corner rule. Tunney by the way looks excellent on film. He combines footwork, a nice jab, good foot speed / hand speed and has great stamina and chin the Marine does. I know none of these small men, including Dempsey, would do as well as they did today. Heavyweights have gone up THREE Wight classes in fight weight since, From 190-200 lbs, currier weights, past the bridge weight division, and into the super heavyweight division. Most of the top then today are over 230+ pounds and 6'2" tall. I believe size when combined with skill matters in boxing. Check out my thread titled top 15 heavyweight prospects which I update quartley. It's due soon! You find an abundance of super heavyweights. The game has changed at heavyweight. Some historians deny this trend. I say its here to stay and point out to them the obvious as the last time a small guy was champion was Mike Spinks in the mid 1980's, and he was in the right place fighting and older Larry Holmes. https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/boxing-forums/non-stop-boxing/31535564-dr-z-s-top-15-heavyweight-prospects/page3#post31740122 ​ The point made by Marg and I made the same point, is that Tunney was better at Light heavy, and calling another light heavy a heavy (Gibbs) does not change that point.

- - Usyk and AJ already rank over Blubber on boxrec, so no need to fight him that already refused to fight them .

I was being tongue-in-cheek about Heeney. If you want to bring the ****show into detail, let's: Plenty of theses posters have heard of the names Dempsey, Tunney, and Sharkey. They may even be familiar with names like Wills, Langford, and Norfolk. Definitely, everyone knows who Harry Greb is. Heeney, Risko, and Madden ... not so much. Wonder why that is? These dudes were such top HW they were beaten regularly by LHWs and MWs. They are the reason fellows like Billy Miske were top ranked contenders. Hell, they are why any and damn near all WWs-LHWs in that era that were worth a **** fought at HW. Gibbons and Greb are top notch names, but not heavyweights and you know it. So, little more detail, the point that Tunney only has one braggable win at HW over a HW who was so close to retirement Tunney was his last fight. "Him beat these career lower weights and a great champion right before that champ retired" is the battle hymn of the fans of every overrated​​ ​​champ anyone ever pretended was worth a ****. JCC went 80+ too, then he fought someone with a hope and a prayer. He beat an in shape and active Dempsey when he was age 31 and 32 twice. Winning 18 or 19 of 20 rounds. IMO, Tunney on film is shown as alert on the count of four and IMO could have gotten up earlier, but as it was Dempsey ignored the rule and did not go to a neutral corner rule. Tunney by the way looks excellent on film. He combines footwork, a nice jab, good foot speed / hand speed and has great stamina and chin the Marine does. I know none of these small men, including Dempsey, would do as well as they did today. Heavyweights have gone up THREE Wight classes in fight weight since, From 190-200 lbs, currier weights, past the bridge weight division, and into the super heavyweight division. Most of the top then today are over 230+ pounds and 6'2" tall. I believe size when combined with skill matters in boxing. Check out my thread titled top 15 heavyweight prospects which I update quartley. It's due soon! You find an abundance of super heavyweights. The game has changed at heavyweight. Some historians deny this trend. I say its here to stay and point out to them the obvious as the last time a small guy was champion was Mike Spinks in the mid 1980's, and he was in the right place fighting and older Larry Holmes. https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/boxing-forums/non-stop-boxing/31535564-dr-z-s-top-15-heavyweight-prospects/page3#post31740122 ​

Hard to say. Tunney is considered an ATG by both casually knowledgeable fans and well researched historians. His heavyweight resume is Jack Dempsey and Tom Heeney. If you're wondering who Tom Heeney was, you're not alone bud. Gibbons was a LHW. Greb was a MW. Dempsey was great but Tunney was his last fight and Tunney needed a long count to beat him. All time great HW? Most people say yes ... for ... reasons ... So will Usyk be an ATG? Maybe. Ain't no one cares about Michael Spinks theses days but plenty still think Tunney was great. Ali, Louis, Lennox, level great. ... ... ... because ... reasons. You can call me a historian of the game and one who focuses on heavyweights. Risko and Madden were heavyweight too's. Over 185 pounds then, which was definitely a heavyweight. Are you aware of who they are? Gibbons fought at heavyweight and Greb did too. Tunney officially lost one match...in 80+ fights! Don't under sell the HOF fighter Tunney short. Historians don't. Tunney is 9-1-1 is hall of fame fighters.

Fighters don't fight.much nowadays so it's hard to look further than Ali. But if usy k stops the trend and fights everyone, zhang, flip, Sanchez also then I'd put him with Ali

Fury and Usyk aren’t ATGs? Lmao. man you put Ali foreman and Frazier over them? guys from the 60s/70s were bad Yes, I rate Ali way above them. He fought t many talents of the 1970's such as KO wins over Liston, Frazier, Foreman and Lyle! He also defeated Norton and may in the top ten at heavyweight. I used Ring Magaizne ratings as the bench mark as they are the gold standard. Ali defeated 15+ such fighters in their top 10 at the time when he fought them. Fury is a joke of a fighter who has beaten but three Ring ranked magazine fighters in the top ten when he meet them. And the ones he beat were Old. I don't rate Frazier as highly but he is as an ATG! Foreman was too. How long have you been watching boxing?

If he beats AJ, Fury, and Wilder, he would be the best of this era. Overall? I do not believe this era is that great and he has fought only very few HW fights so I won't rank him that high...perhaps top 25 or top 30. So far, he's only fought and beaten one of the other generally accepted top 3. He still needs to fight Fury and Wilder to get the best of this era name.

Fury won`t fight Usyk. Why are people pretending like this fight will happen?

Depends really... Does he win a close decision that might be contraversal? Does he outclass a ready Gypsy Dossier? Does Fury just show up for a payday? Is there perhaps a trilogy? I tend to think that as a complete fighter Usyk ranks high, he reminds me a bit of Gene Tunney, in that Tunney beat Dempsey and some other excellent heavyweights, but was truly a greater light heavy, and belongs in that category. Usyk, for all his greatness, is grabbing low hanging fruit. The Fury fight is potentially an interesting development as would be a Wilder fight, but a lot depends on how the fight gets made, how the fighters are prepared and what the fight tells us about both men. - - What the fight tells us is you been drooling ever since The Gypsy Princess and his bankrupt promoter made a blizzard of fake offers to AJ and Usyk and been feasting evermore on boxing’s spoilt low hanging fruit like he’s done all through his comeback. Thats OK since Deyonce made him punch drunk needing a permanent retirement…:hijacked:

I'd say this is about right. Fury and Joshua are not all time greats, but they would be the start of a pretty good Top 15-20 for me if he retries after this, being undefeated. Fury and Usyk aren’t ATGs? Lmao. man you put Ali foreman and Frazier over them? guys from the 60s/70s were bad