Punch count: Why loma-haney was one of the worst robberies

Yes I am aware of this about Lomachenko, but it shouldn't be automatically hold against him in every fight. Especially in Haney fight, where it wasn't even a case. Giving Haney something like 5 rounds from the first six doesn't sit with me well while reasoning it with "Loma had a slow start as always". That is false narrative to me. Yeah, I don't think he did start slow. In fact, I, and most people, gave him at least 2 of the first 4 rounds. Only diehard Haney fans gave Haney the first 5 or 6. He just gets a lot of that talk because that's why he has lost fights in the past. Based on how that went, I suspect he would have needed a stoppage or a couple knockdowns. Many of the analysts said during the fight that he had started fairly quickly, and most gave him at least 7 rounds.

Loma is known for starting slow while he does what Ward likes to call "downloading." Both the fights he lost before he threw relatively few punches in the first 6 rounds before coming on very strong by the end of the fight. All of the fights he lost he was very dominant in many the later rounds, and likely would have won if we were still doing 14/15 rounders, possibly by stoppage. He averages 55 punches per round, mostly in later rounds. Usually he's in the 20 range for early rounds. Haney, in contrast, averages 44 punches per round, and is known for being economical and accurate. So he was within his norm. Loma actually started pretty strong for his recent fights though. Yes I am aware of this about Lomachenko, but it shouldn't be automatically hold against him in every fight. Especially in Haney fight, where it wasn't even a case. Giving Haney something like 5 rounds from the first six doesn't sit with me well while reasoning it with "Loma had a slow start as always". That is false narrative to me.

My boy Russ said it best ... https://twitter.com/RussAnber/status/1661247088821141508

You know it's a robbery when a lot of Haney fans are calling it a robbery. It was actually encouraging to see some honest thoughts on the outcome from fighters, fans and analysts who were rooting for Haney and still thought he lost.

Grazing punches are rarely effective unless they're on the top of the head. Those can really mess up the fighter's equilibrium. Very little of the force transfers, since the vectors are all wrong. If you want to try this yourself, you can try punching something straight on, compared to standing at a diagonal to the target with the same punch. You'll feel the difference immediately. They may still get scored by judges, but they're going to have relatively negligible effect in terms of damage. Loma is known for starting slow while he does what Ward likes to call "downloading." Both the fights he lost before he threw relatively few punches in the first 6 rounds before coming on very strong by the end of the fight. All of the fights he lost he was very dominant in many the later rounds, and likely would have won if we were still doing 14/15 rounders, possibly by stoppage. He averages 55 punches per round, mostly in later rounds. Usually he's in the 20 range for early rounds. Haney, in contrast, averages 44 punches per round, and is known for being economical and accurate. So he was within his norm. Loma actually started pretty strong for his recent fights though. I can't fathom why he thinks it's appropriate to take his foot off the gas these days though, especially in relatively close undisputed fights. I think he should have won, and might have needed a knockout to win regardless, but it's still frustrating to me that he just gives fights away like this. If he had fought like a champion in Rd 12, there would be even less reason to call it a win for Haney. He might have even gotten the stoppage in 11 if he'd gone up a gear. Makes me wonder if he's lost a step. Based on how much he got hit to the body, I think he'll probably get stopped by Tank Davis now. I want to see Shakur v Tank though. Best defense vs best offense is always interesting. I favor Shakur on that one, but Tank has one heck of an X-factor. Very good post. Unfortunately Loma aging and at lightweight speed is the biggest attribute especially for Loma. If you watched his last 5-6 fights you clearly see that he is slowing down and now he just dont have enough gas in tank to be super active all 12rds like he used to be. BUt even now at 35yo being clearly past prime he is outboxing younger faster stronger top level opponents due to his boxing IQ. He is special fighter no doub about it

Ok going by this Loma probably avoided some of the body shots. And some were even blocked by elbows. The grazing shots are also a little difficult for me to assess. Is that effective punching? The low to high impact is interesting criterion but also subjective. Grazing punches are rarely effective unless they're on the top of the head. Those can really mess up the fighter's equilibrium. Very little of the force transfers, since the vectors are all wrong. If you want to try this yourself, you can try punching something straight on, compared to standing at a diagonal to the target with the same punch. You'll feel the difference immediately. They may still get scored by judges, but they're going to have relatively negligible effect in terms of damage. Maybe. I am just curious because I haven't seen anyone criticise Haney for a slow start even though punch stats were basically even in four of the six rounds (according to Compubox, some "unofficial" videos had the gap wider) and the narrative for some seems to be that Loma automatically lost early rounds because of his slow start. Loma is known for starting slow while he does what Ward likes to call "downloading." Both the fights he lost before he threw relatively few punches in the first 6 rounds before coming on very strong by the end of the fight. All of the fights he lost he was very dominant in many the later rounds, and likely would have won if we were still doing 14/15 rounders, possibly by stoppage. He averages 55 punches per round, mostly in later rounds. Usually he's in the 20 range for early rounds. Haney, in contrast, averages 44 punches per round, and is known for being economical and accurate. So he was within his norm. Loma actually started pretty strong for his recent fights though. I can't fathom why he thinks it's appropriate to take his foot off the gas these days though, especially in relatively close undisputed fights. I think he should have won, and might have needed a knockout to win regardless, but it's still frustrating to me that he just gives fights away like this. If he had fought like a champion in Rd 12, there would be even less reason to call it a win for Haney. He might have even gotten the stoppage in 11 if he'd gone up a gear. Makes me wonder if he's lost a step. Based on how much he got hit to the body, I think he'll probably get stopped by Tank Davis now. I want to see Shakur v Tank though. Best defense vs best offense is always interesting. I favor Shakur on that one, but Tank has one heck of an X-factor.

Maybe. I am just curious because I haven't seen anyone criticise Haney for a slow start even though punch stats were basically even in four of the six rounds (according to Compubox, some "unofficial" videos had the gap wider) and the narrative for some seems to be that Loma automatically lost early rounds because of his slow start. Ok that us fair. The fight was close. 7-5 either way. Posters are likely discussing the rounds based on who they wanted to win. If the poster picked Haney, perhaps they are too critical of Loma and vice versa.

Not in an over exaggerated way. More couldve been done. The volume wasnt really there. Maybe. I am just curious because I haven't seen anyone criticise Haney for a slow start even though punch stats were basically even in four of the six rounds (according to Compubox, some "unofficial" videos had the gap wider) and the narrative for some seems to be that Loma automatically lost early rounds because of his slow start.

Just for the discussion and my curiosity. You also believe that Loma did nothing in the first half of the fight and showed up only in 2nd half? How?​ Not in an over exaggerated way. More couldve been done. The volume wasnt really there.

https://youtu.be/vj6U6caJIJw This guy did a good breakdown. Not sure why he didn't do the other rounds though This is it right here

Bad decisions happen. Time to move on. Only bad thing is if you scared of being robbed in future so your overly aggressive in future fights and get koed by jm m like pac was

video just proves how corrupt this sport is. Young local guy was gifted decision to market it for future fights. If Haney want to have any level of respect, he needs to do rematch, but i think he will run with his tail between legs as Salido or Lopez. On the other note - if this sport wants any competitive future vs UFC, someone should call this sht out and bring justice, but problem is Boxing Nevada commission is source of this corruption.

100 percent. This right here!! Just for the discussion and my curiosity. You also believe that Loma did nothing in the first half of the fight and showed up only in 2nd half? How?​

One of the ways to tell is if the fighter starts moving away before the shot lands, or if it lands on elbows. Either of those is likely a defended shot. Popping out or rotating are common and easy ways to defend a body shot without doing a block or parry. If the punch lands and then the fighter moves away, especially from point of contact, then it's probably a landed punch. That's where slowdowns help, because you can go frame by frame if you need to and see what moves first. Ok going by this Loma probably avoided some of the body shots. And some were even blocked by elbows. The grazing shots are also a little difficult for me to assess. Is that effective punching? The low to high impact is interesting criterion but also subjective.

https://youtu.be/vj6U6caJIJw This guy did a good breakdown. Not sure why he didn't do the other rounds though Because it was unnecessary. Those rounds were so clearly Loma’s rounds that it was impossible for Haney to win at that point. There was no reason to do the others.

https://youtu.be/vj6U6caJIJw This guy did a good breakdown. Not sure why he didn't do the other rounds though

I don't generally like these slow down videos because they can distort what happened in the ring, but to be honest they can offer an interesting perspective on the fight :) I still have problem to tell if the body shots of Haney landed, ones that Loma moves away from. Guy in the video doesn't count them, so I don't know. One of the ways to tell is if the fighter starts moving away before the shot lands, or if it lands on elbows. Either of those is likely a defended shot. Popping out or rotating are common and easy ways to defend a body shot without doing a block or parry. If the punch lands and then the fighter moves away, especially from point of contact, then it's probably a landed punch. That's where slowdowns help, because you can go frame by frame if you need to and see what moves first.

It wasn't a robbery and Lomachenko's crying is what seperates him from the ATGs. There's an unhealthy arrogance in the way that he conducts himself. You can't just decide to show up in the 2nd half of the fight and then let your foot off the gas in the 12th. If he didn't feel entitled to have rounds that were scored competitively in his favour, he'd have committed himself more in the 12. Of course some of this might be a limitation of his style. Taking things easy in the first half of the right so that he can up the tempo when they're tired. If that is his gameplan, he needs to take a leaf out of Mayweather's book and win the rounds cleanly. 100 percent.

Haney outlanded or tied Loma in 7 of the 12 rounds. NOT a robbery. You could argue Loma should've won by your SUBJECTIVE criteria, fine, but the guy who won OBJECTIVELY landed the most punches or tied in 5 of the first 6 rounds. Loma didn't win 7 rounds in a row. Any score from 115-113 Haney or Lomachenko is a correct score.

Funny how we haven't seen any similar videos from the Haney crowd actually proving that Haney won enough rounds to win the fight. Because when you slow it down, it's obvious that Loma won the fight. I don't generally like these slow down videos because they can distort what happened in the ring, but to be honest they can offer an interesting perspective on the fight :) I still have problem to tell if the body shots of Haney landed, ones that Loma moves away from. Guy in the video doesn't count them, so I don't know.