Don't hate on having catchweights, they were grown men he was fighting, they can make their own decision. Meaning nobody put a gun to their head and said "come in drained " if they weren't comfortable at the agreed weight, why would they come in so light?..Cotto, Hatton, Margarito, de la Hoya; they all behaved like champions and made comfort at a difficult place. THEY never publicly blamed their losses on catchweights, but their fans insist so. Pacquiaos run was legendary, an atg and second pound for pound fighter behind Floyd in his era.
I believe catchweights were around for a while, me thinks (correct me if I'm wrong) that Donny Lalonde vs sugar Ray Leonard was contested at a lower weight than lightheavy but was for all the marbles at 175. Donny said he didn't even think the fight was gonna happen due to the last minute because of the weight disparage. We all know what happened there.
Then there was Oscar vs Hopkins at middleweight. It was contested at 157 or was it 158 lbs? Frick, Hopkins came in lighter than de la Hoya was! Not to mention Floyd and Canelo are avid users of the catchweight. Correct me if I'm wrong on that. Clenelo and fluid haters can contest what it is that they do. I'm not hating.
The point is, if you have faith in yourself and have integrity, play the b side then win and be the a side in the rematch. Look here, Chad Dawson challenged Andre Ward at a full weight class not as a catchweight. That was because he believed in his abilities. The thing what got him though was that he got dropped in sparring for that fight so Dre told him to his face at the weigh in about how he heard of the trouble he had getting knocked out in training. His shoulders shrunk and ward knew he had the fight won already mentally.
Boxers must look out for themselves do what they gotta do to win. Maidana took 1.5 or 2 million just to wear the Floyd gloves. Floyd paid a million or so to Juan Manuel Marquez for a pound overweight or so. I'm not saying be dirty, but I'd rather see a overly aggressive guy than a soft guy, peace to Hopkins, John Ruiz, and Holyfield. They did everything in order to win their fights no matter what it took:
Hopkins ball punch and headbutt with elbow, Ruiz academy award acting and Greco Roman wrestling, Evander Holyfield with peds from a Mackie shilstone Mr Olympia. You don't play boxing. Just like the saying goes, it's not an intentional headbutt but knowing where to put your head. Just the position of where you put it. Nuff said.
Show me some of your credentials/achievements that would make your “rule book” credible. You can say whatever you want in your imaginary book it still won’t change the facts or records. FM was an underdog several times in his career but I wouldn’t expect a Pacquiao fan to know that, you guys are in last place when it comes to boxing knowledge.
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Pac is Floyd s best win that tells us all we need to know. Being underdog at tail end of career is the important part, the business end. So what if people underestimàted Floyd at beginning.? Floyd co asted was on autopilot for later part of career. Being unbeaten was all that mattered with cws with no rematches in opponents backyard and cherrypicking
In my rulebook it says You can't become of the goats only fighting in your backyard, not giving biggest rivals of your time rematches to prove in trilogy you can win more than once. Nobody can be best of era, let alone TBE by trying to get every advantage, being overly cautious, ducking so many fights public wanted to see, and never wanting to be underdog to prove to people you're not overated.
Because it won't come as a surprise to Floyd fans that people think Floyd is overrated even with his unbeaten recird. So Floyd should have been underdog where people think he'd lose and prove people he was deserving of praise
Show me some of your credentials/achievements that would make your “rule book” credible. You can say whatever you want in your imaginary book it still won’t change the facts or records. FM was an underdog several times in his career but I wouldn’t expect a Pacquiao fan to know that, you guys are in last place when it comes to boxing knowledge.
Pacquio fought
for more vacant titles
more catchweights
more fighters coming off losses
less fighters coming off KO wins
Never faced a 154 champion at the full weight
All the data undeniably proves Pacquiao was the one who was “overly cautious”. He couldn’t even face an over the hill ran down Oscar at a respectable weight.
- - Yo, Dumir, Manny only fought once at 154 and that was an arranged Arum match with Margarito, U know, the guy TBE TUE ducked in spite of a career purse offer.
And Manny only fought him in spite of never weighing more than 145 because l'l Floydy was ducking Manny. Thanks for the reminder. U priceless!
I know I’ve already said this.All of his fights were arranged by Arum considering Arum was his boss. What’s your point? :lol1: Nothing you wrote is relevant to the conversation. He fought him because he seen an easy chance to win a fake belt. Floyd doesn’t fight for vacant belts
Floyd was 39yrs old when GGG issued that weak challenge and how could GGG be a true champ at 154 when he’s never fought in that weight class. Do you even know what you’re talking about? Try again. Facts are facts Manny has never faced a fighter at 154 without requesting advantages. If Oscar and Cotto were shopworn then that just further puts a dent in Pacquiao legacy because he faced a drained Oscar after Floyd did :lol1:
- - Yo, Dumir, Manny only fought once at 154 and that was an arranged Arum match with Margarito, U know, the guy TBE TUE ducked in spite of a career purse offer.
And Manny only fought him in spite of never weighing more than 145 because l'l Floydy was ducking Manny. Thanks for the reminder. U priceless!
Too be honest I can laugh at whatever I want too. Pac is above TBE when considering being knocked out 3 times, fighting in more catchweights, fighting more fighters coming off losses and fighting for 8 vacant titles. Those are the only places he’s above TBE lol. He had to fight in Australia because he didn’t pay his taxes in America which ultimately resulted in him running to Floyd/Haymon to save his career. After he lost to Floyd no one cared for him which is why he hasn’t came close to 1M ppvs since. He’s still an ATG though but everything I’m saying is undeniable facts with proof.
In my rulebook it says You can't become of the goats only fighting in your backyard, not giving biggest rivals of your time rematches to prove in trilogy you can win more than once. Nobody can be best of era, let alone TBE by trying to get every advantage, being overly cautious, ducking so many fights public wanted to see, and never wanting to be underdog to prove to people you're not overated.
Because it won't come as a surprise to Floyd fans that people think Floyd is overrated even with his unbeaten recird. So Floyd should have been underdog where people think he'd lose and prove to people he was better than you thought.
You can't laugh at Pac s losses, when your idol not beat morales, bradley, horn. In australia. Why don't your idol show us how it's done.?
Pac is above TBE, and one of the goats, getting knocked out, and losing to fighters in their backyard isn't a barrier to it. If it is show.me where in rule book?
Pac is above TBE when considering being knocked out 3 times, fighting in more catchweights, fighting more fighters coming off losses and fighting for 8 vacant titles. Those are the only places he’s above TBE lol. He had to fight in Australia because he didn’t pay his taxes in America which ultimately resulted in him running to Floyd/Haymon to save his career. After he lost to Floyd no one cared for him which is why he hasn’t came close to 1M ppvs since. He’s still an ATG though but everything I’m saying is undeniable facts with proof.
Another lame excuse from a Pacquiao fan lol. Pacquiao has never faced anyone at 154. He had to fight an old corpse Margarito at 150. He’s not a true 154lb champ like his former boss Floyd. That’s why Ring and BoxRec has him ranked below Floyd. Can’t be getting whooped by Jeff Horn and expect to be mentioned amongst TBE
You can't laugh at Pac s losses, when your idol not beat morales, bradley, horn. In australia. Why don't your idol show us how it's done.?
Pac is above TBE, and one of the goats, getting knocked out, and losing to fighters in their backyard isn't a barrier to it. If it is show.me where in rule book?
Cotto and Oscar were not where near his best wins unless you just started watching boxing.
Barrera and Morales were his best wins by far.
This just shows than Manny shouldn’t be mentioned amongst Floyd. Morales also beat him first.
Oh so now Margarito is an old corpse a guy Floyd could have beat down first but he backed out of the fight.
If Floyd your cherrypicking boy was such a "true" 154 champ, you wouldn't have to talk about shopworn fighters, he would have took on all comers especially the prime mw champ who was willing to drop down to 154 to see him but he made up excuses only a Floyd boy would defend:
"He's straight up and down with no special effects."
"I can't make 160 pounds...I can barely make 147. If I could go up to 155 pounds, I would beat him (GGG)...that's easy work,"
We know Floyd we know.
I thought this guy was the "true" 154 champ.
Classic Floyd talks major s**t but never down to back it up.
Floyd was 39yrs old when GGG issued that weak challenge and how could GGG be a true champ at 154 when he’s never fought in that weight class. Do you even know what you’re talking about? Try again. Facts are facts Manny has never faced a fighter at 154 without requesting advantages. If Oscar and Cotto were shopworn then that just further puts a dent in Pacquiao legacy because he faced a drained Oscar after Floyd did :lol1:
Yup, forget the knockout, no knockdown, no buzz, etc... with all those advantages and god knows what else... the man who's Testosterone to Epitestosterone is of an elderly man.
You sound like an echo in a toilet bowl.
Marquez was also a lightweight who Floyd already had a height and reach advantage over and on top of that, cheated on the scales. You conveniently left that piece of info out for good reason.
With all those advantages Floyd should have knocked the guy out the ring not safely box to a boring points win. Its obvious the guy didn't belong in there, but we already know how you card carrying Floyd Boys pedestalize mediocrity.
Yup, forget the knockout, no knockdown, no buzz, etc... with all those advantages and god knows what else... the man who's Testosterone to Epitestosterone is of an elderly man.
That is a good point and I agree. But it feels like nobody remembers those guys and for those that do, Barrera and Morales weren't the same fighters by the time they faced Manny. Barrera had fought Erik twice and Morales had fought Marco three times. They dished out a lot of damage to each other and fighters are never the same if you look at the history of these types of rematches/trilogies. Manny was positioned at the perfect time.
The people will remember Cotto and Oscar more than they will Barrera and Morales.
I would agree that Morales wasn't entirely the same because he went through wars and never really reset himself to become more of a boxer the way Barrera did. He also never looked that great going up in weight as Barrera did, at least at 130lbs. Barrera on the other hand went on to get many more good wins after Pacquiao thrashed him. I never thought he was washed up yet. I think he was only 29 years old and just had a larger record fighting stiffs early on similar to Canelo.
General public will remember Cotto/Oscar more because they were introduced to him that way as any casual would be. They only watch the big, mega stars. While Morales and Barrera were mega stars for actual boxing fans, those would probably remember those fights as being better wins. It all depends who you ask. Pac really had 2 careers. One under 135lbs and the other over 140lbs. For me, over 140lbs was glamour Pac. Under 135lbs was serious Pac.
- - No fighter came close to doing what Manny did to Marquez, first knocking him down thrice in his adopted hometown of Vegas in the first round without getting the crook Cortez stoppage, and then getting robbed on the cards by a judge admitting to a scoring error in that fight.
Then, (it gets mucho mas mejor senor) Marquez turns down the immediate rematch for a career purse, $700K to end up flying his team to Indonesia to be beat up by Chris John for a shockingly measly $25k purse, I mean U can't make up this kinda cowardly stoooooooooooopid up!
I could go on, but really, I need to stop picking on U stoooooooooooopid. I used to work with ******ed kids, and they were good kids, so no way I'm gonna pick on them. U ain't half as good though.
Yikes, you said it, Manny beat him clearly the 1st and 2nd time, 3rd fight where Marquez had some success in the middle rounds while Manny chasing him around and still outpointing him throughout that fight,
It did take Marquez a long time to agree on the rematch and in usual Marquez form he instead went with the lesser pay and supposedly easier opponent and lost a unanimous decision instead, guess fighting Pac that quick on a turnabout wasn't what he wanted, don't blame him.
Hey listen, fans wanted to see all these fights because Pac went up to WW primarily to face ODLH for his biggest paycheck and recognition. He shouldn't have really ever stuck there and went back down to 135lbs 140lbs. Granted the competition wasn't going to be as exciting. Since Pac decided to hover around 147lbs, he was being called out by naturally bigger guys left and right. In order to make some of those happen, while he had just entered WW, he had to setup terms. It wasn't until Pac finally settled into WW that he faced guys with no weight stipulations. You're talking a guy who prior to his ODLH bout was weighing under 135lbs.
Even on Pac's next day weight for all his WW bouts, I'm not sure he was ever more than 149lbs... He was a small WW and people basically wanted to see him lose badly to larger guys. Yet if he didn't face them, they'd call him a ducker. You can't have it all.
Perfectly said El, he should have gone back down to 140 or even 135 after a few years into his Welterweight run were he belonged,
even now recently after being out for more than 2 years instead of facing Ugas (where Ugas looked noticeably larger), he should have fought an opponent at the lower weight's were atleast the weight discrepancy would have been somewhat equal and would only leave Manny with an age/rust disadvantage,
also since his political career began he hadn't been training the same as before going back to over a decade now, and was more a part time performer juggling multiple ventures.
Im not debating that CWs have always been in boxing I don't like them because always takes something away from the guy having to come down, the guy going up gets a boost in strength and power, I'm debating the merit of some wins against CWed opponents, a CW can hurt you badly or not at all, or anywhere in between it depends on so many things with the individual case.
The biggest red flag with Manny was Cotto, refusing to fight him without a CW twice, the second time he called Cotto out for his 154 title, if ever you were going to move up for a title what easier path than a guy you already beat up, not for Manny he refused and that spells only one reason he doesn't believe he can beat Cotto without a CW that drains him.
Hey listen, fans wanted to see all these fights because Pac went up to WW primarily to face ODLH for his biggest paycheck and recognition. He shouldn't have really ever stuck there and went back down to 135lbs 140lbs. Granted the competition wasn't going to be as exciting. Since Pac decided to hover around 147lbs, he was being called out by naturally bigger guys left and right. In order to make some of those happen, while he had just entered WW, he had to setup terms. It wasn't until Pac finally settled into WW that he faced guys with no weight stipulations. You're talking a guy who prior to his ODLH bout was weighing under 135lbs.
Even on Pac's next day weight for all his WW bouts, I'm not sure he was ever more than 149lbs... He was a small WW and people basically wanted to see him lose badly to larger guys. Yet if he didn't face them, they'd call him a ducker. You can't have it all.
Another lame excuse from a Pacquiao fan lol. Pacquiao has never faced anyone at 154. He had to fight an old corpse Margarito at 150. He’s not a true 154lb champ like his former boss Floyd. That’s why Ring and BoxRec has him ranked below Floyd. Can’t be getting whooped by Jeff Horn and expect to be mentioned amongst TBE
Oh so now Margarito is an old corpse a guy Floyd could have beat down first but he backed out of the fight.
If Floyd your cherrypicking boy was such a "true" 154 champ, you wouldn't have to talk about shopworn fighters, he would have took on all comers especially the prime mw champ who was willing to drop down to 154 to see him but he made up excuses only a Floyd boy would defend:
"He's straight up and down with no special effects."
"I can't make 160 pounds...I can barely make 147. If I could go up to 155 pounds, I would beat him (GGG)...that's easy work,"
We know Floyd we know.
I thought this guy was the "true" 154 champ.
Classic Floyd talks major s**t but never down to back it up.
Floyd backed out of a fight with Margarito.
Floyd wasn't too worried about Cotto and Oscar as they were already raked through the coals.
Another lame excuse from a Pacquiao fan lol. Pacquiao has never faced anyone at 154. He had to fight an old corpse Margarito at 150. He’s not a true 154lb champ like his former boss Floyd. That’s why Ring and BoxRec has him ranked below Floyd. Can’t be getting whooped by Jeff Horn and expect to be mentioned amongst TBE
Yup, same Marquez...
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Piss water does a body good.
Pacquiao also fought Marquez at catchweight lol.The only reason Manny won a title at 154 because he dragged an inactive Margarito all the way down to 150 for a vacant title :lol1: He never faced a true 154 lb fighter with a championship like Floyd did (Cotto, De La Hoya). Another advantage Floyd has over him
Floyd backed out of a fight with Margarito.
Floyd wasn't too worried about Cotto and Oscar as they were already raked through the coals.
Same Marquez planked Manny lol, 150 lbs fight night same weight both fights .
How come things never quite add up for you lol, its to do with truth vs bs, you're a loser trying to pump up a loser and you're drowning again in your own bs lol.
Your answer is there.
Pacquiao also fought Marquez at catchweight lol.The only reason Manny won a title at 154 because he dragged an inactive Margarito all the way down to 150 for a vacant title :lol1: He never faced a true 154 lb fighter with a championship like Floyd did (Cotto, De La Hoya). Another advantage Floyd has over him