Why do some fans demand fighters to do what past greats do?

For nearly 15 years posting here, this never gets old. Critics of certain fighters have such clouded judgement of hatred that they don’t realize they are insulting past greats by pretending that any good top 10 boxer can do what the legends did. Like…”so and so is not great because he could not do what did.” Okay, has it ever occurred to these sorts of fans, what the legendary ATG did in his career was part of what placed them so highly as one of the best? “So and so fought the most HOF fighters in history. Top fighter from the present could not do that so he sucks, is a fraud.” Boxing is a very tough and grueling sport to be successful in. A boxer being the best of his era does not mean he needs to replicate what past greats did. Or that he can do exactly what they did. You are either subconsciously putting the fighter you are criticizing on a pedestal. Or you don’t think very highly of the past greats/HOFers and expect the current top fighters It’s nearly impossible to copy an ATG career and be successful at it. Pay your respects to those who had ATG careers and move on. It is extremely hard to have an ATG career. Especially a carbon copy of one. Level of activity in today's fighters leaves much tio be desired, so fans expect alot more.

I mean seriously, I wish boxingscene had an actual physical meeting spot where we can all just box our asses off. Lmao... There'd be no more trolling, I'd tell you that. Well, actually I'm sure they still would. You have to understand man, pro fighters who say stupid shit in interviews and on TV get called out by people in the boxing world behind the scenes and they just laugh about it. The culture definitely has gotten very bad. Not as bad as places like the NBA, but it's trash in a lot of areas. It's good to call to them out and joke on them about it.

It is not about fighting everyone. It’s beating everyone like ATG’s did. That’s what’s hard. And yeah they fought so often…but what level of fighters? That’s called padded records. And FYI, I prefer that. I would like that back. Padded records meant you can see fighters more often. You can watch boxing more often. Guys would get developed better. And I am not entirely sure how you can say a man is not a man in boxing today. Most of those top guys you are questioning would probably kick your ass and my ass on the same day. They will probably make you question your manhood after a good beating. Also, do you still box? If so, where do you box? Where do you train? (City/state) I'll give you an example. Ray Robinson lost to LaMotta. He wanted a rematch... So he took a tune up fight... two weeks later. And he didn't fight a slouch. He fought Jackie Wilson who had over 50 fights and only 4 losses and won a decision. This type of stuff doesn't happen today. A WEEK after that fight he rematched and beat LaMotta. Men were men back then. Do you think ANY fighter back then would utter the words, "I'm not giving him a rematch because he wouldn't of given me one..." No. This is the difference between fighters back then and fighters today. It's the reason there's all time greats like them.

Pacquiao fought some guys who had no hope but Clottey was definitely seen as a very live opponent. So was Hatton. He played Cotto with the weight for some reason. Idk why. He also did fight Cotto after he seemingly lost to Clottey (I had Clottey winning). While Roach and Ariza were telling us that DLH was shot, couldn’t pull the trigger anymore, can’t make 147 healthy, and was seen “huffing and puffing” after a short run…us fans did not buy it. Oddmakers did not buy it either. No one bought it. Everyone thought Pacquiao/Roach were crazy. Turns out they were right. But still, the beating Pacquiao put on DLH, no one saw that coming except for them (Roach, Ariza). I don’t even think Pacquiao knew he was gonna put that kind of beating on DLH. He probably also thought Roach and Ariza were crazy like the rest of us. The rest I agree with. Although he beat the crap out of Horn. I thought Pacquiao won that fight. You also can’t take his wins over MAB, Morales and Marquez away from him. I mean he lost more to JMM than he won. But those were the 3 greatest fighters he could fight and he did and they were prime. You can’t take that away from him. You also can’t take his wins over Keith Thurman and Tim Bradley away either. Those were very good wins. And he absolutely undressed Algieri, who was a decent, gutsy fighter. Not a great fighter but man, what a way to take someone’s 0. A lot of top 10 fighters 1st loss was to Pacquiao. Clottey was maybe a decent gatekeeper. Hatton was pure hype. Cotto and DLH were fights were fans wanted to believe were dangerous fights for Pac (on paper they were ?). Pac's team is very smart and sold fans on the idea he was doing some otherworldly shlt. It was shlt alright. Erik, Barrera and Bradley were prototypical Pac opponents. Even JMM fit the Pac opponent profile - Easy to hit righthander. The thing with Bradley is his lack of power yet eager to show he has heart (which he did). 3x fights, though ? I also felt Pac beat Horn rather easily. That should have been another successful cherry pick. Prior to WW, Pac's resume was.....ok. Above it all he has is Thurman and a couple of close W's vs JMM. Thin as hell, if a fight fan is unbiased. Some 0's are worthless.

Exactly nothing. No one said anything about not wanting to see the best not fighting the best. We have had this issue before, where you do not understand the thread topic. Again, it is in easily understandable English. Fans have extremely high expectations for fighters they don't like. The point of the thread is that it's very difficult to do what a boxer unanimously known as a top 10 ATG did in his time. This means wining like they did. Accomplishing what they accomplished. This includes the best fighting the best and losing or winning close. The thread topic, if you read carefully, does not mention "fighters should avoid the best". The content of the thread is that even if fighters fight the best, it's not enough for some fans. They want to see a fighter they don't like replicate a top 10-20 ATG fighter. But that top 10-20 ATG is ranked where he is ranked because what he did can not be easily replicated. Which is a very hard concept for some of you to understand. I am not sure why it's so hard. It's like I am talking to zombies or something. What Ali or SRL did in their time, winning like they did, beating who they beat, winning in the fashion they did...all of that is extremely difficult. Some boxing fans think boxing is a piece of cake and anyone can do what Ali did, or what SRL did, or what Marciano did. If Mike Trout from the LA Angels can't reach Babe Ruth's homerun record, or Hank Aaron's home run record, it's okay. Baseball fans know it's a huge feat to break without the use of steroids (Barry Bonds cheated to break Ruth/Aaron's record). Why won't Mike Trout finish with 714 home runs or more? If he is really great, he should replicate Babe Ruth or Hank Aaron's career right? No, what they did was extremely hard and will not be easily done again. Some of you boxing fans don't really have any clue how hard the sport is. How hard it is to even be top 25 active in a weight class. Let alone top 10. Let alone win every fight vs any top 10 fighter you fight. It's hard. ATG's are who they are because they accomplished things that are very hard to accomplish and can't just be repeated easily. you wrote all of that for what? I wasnt even talking to you. I didnt post anything pertaining to your thread starter. You're mad because i agreed with another poster about dudes not wanting to see the best vs the best? Lmaooo you become great by attempting to do what the greats did before you. Everybody isnt gonna make the mark. But you cant become great if you dont try. So miss me with that bullsh*t. All the greats loss. Aint no shame in losing to the best. Its shame when you avoid the best. These dudes hold titles hostage for years and never even attempt to unify. These dudes have no interest in fighting anybody equal or better. Sports is about competition. It don't matter if your number 1 or number 10 in a divison. And stop pretending like you know better than everybody else. Because you dont know me or anybody else on here. I grew up in the amateurs. That doesnt make my opinion better than anybody elses. This is a forum to talk boxing. Its all opinions. The only facts are the results in the ring. But we dont even get results in the ring because these dudes wont fight each other. But go ahead and keep telling us why fans are wrong for wanting todays fighters to attempt what past fighters attempted.

Pac tried his best to avoid the best. Especially at WW. Let's review - Shot Clottey, Shot DLH*, Cotto*, Shot Rios, Shot Margarito*, Shot Broner, Shot Lucas, Shot Mosley, Shot Algieri*, HORN, Vargas, Bradley 3x........ I don't why the sport let him get away with it for so ling. Pacquiao fought some guys who had no hope but Clottey was definitely seen as a very live opponent. So was Hatton. He played Cotto with the weight for some reason. Idk why. He also did fight Cotto after he seemingly lost to Clottey (I had Clottey winning). While Roach and Ariza were telling us that DLH was shot, couldn’t pull the trigger anymore, can’t make 147 healthy, and was seen “huffing and puffing” after a short run…us fans did not buy it. Oddmakers did not buy it either. No one bought it. Everyone thought Pacquiao/Roach were crazy. Turns out they were right. But still, the beating Pacquiao put on DLH, no one saw that coming except for them (Roach, Ariza). I don’t even think Pacquiao knew he was gonna put that kind of beating on DLH. He probably also thought Roach and Ariza were crazy like the rest of us. The rest I agree with. Although he beat the crap out of Horn. I thought Pacquiao won that fight. You also can’t take his wins over MAB, Morales and Marquez away from him. I mean he lost more to JMM than he won. But those were the 3 greatest fighters he could fight and he did and they were prime. You can’t take that away from him. You also can’t take his wins over Keith Thurman and Tim Bradley away either. Those were very good wins. And he absolutely undressed Algieri, who was a decent, gutsy fighter. Not a great fighter but man, what a way to take someone’s 0. A lot of top 10 fighters 1st loss was to Pacquiao.

So Pac falls way short since he couldn't beat the best guys on his resume in their prime. Pac tried his best to avoid the best. Especially at WW. Let's review - Shot Clottey, Shot DLH*, Cotto*, Shot Rios, Shot Margarito*, Shot Broner, Shot Lucas, Shot Mosley, Shot Algieri*, HORN, Vargas, Bradley 3x........ I don't why the sport let him get away with it for so ling.

Idgaf. It’s a discussion forum. There will be arguments and disagreements. If you don’t care to argue your opinions then leave. Look at every single thread here. Fans arguing. It’s been like this since the start. Stop coming in here like you are some hall monitor or traffic officer or something. Discuss/argue the initial post or go some where else. Or make your own thread talking about whatever the hell it is you are here to talk about. Coming in here stating the obvious. “Fans will have different opinions”…well…no sh/t. What’s your point? Shut down the forum? Why have a discussion forum? Let’s close it because clmags doesn’t want us arguing. Whoa, 2 paragraphs of anger/frustration just for stating rhe obvious? My statement was adding to the thread. With some sh!t talking added in. With the others whose opinions did not line up with yours you straight shot them down, no open mind or consideration with their opinions. Only fans dont get this.. Or that.. E-thug internet tough guys.. Get in the ring like I did.. BLAH/BLAH, etc. It really seems the only one who doesn't get it is you.

Still haven't stepped off that soapbox I see. Bro,. Boxing is a sport. Not every fan will have the same standards and opinions on things. You working your self up for nothing. Idgaf. It’s a discussion forum. There will be arguments and disagreements. If you don’t care to argue your opinions then leave. Look at every single thread here. Fans arguing. It’s been like this since the start. Stop coming in here like you are some hall monitor or traffic officer or something. Discuss/argue the initial post or go some where else. Or make your own thread talking about whatever the hell it is you are here to talk about. Coming in here stating the obvious. “Fans will have different opinions”…well…no sh/t. What’s your point? Shut down the forum? Why have a discussion forum? Let’s close it because clmags doesn’t want us arguing.

Exactly. It’s what I mean. Some boxing fans hold fighters they don’t like to higher standards than fighters they do like. Their demands for certain boxers have malice behind them. But they want to present it like they’re just being a good old boxing fan who just want to see the “best fighting the best”. Except for when it’s there favorite fighter. Some fans make these extremely difficult demands that not even fighters they like can accomplish. And they know it. Which is why they don’t demand the same from fighters they like. That has to be the reason. If that is not, and they are just being naive, thinking anyone can do what the past greats did then they are more lost than I thought. Because ATG’s were not just fighters who fought everyone. They fought everyone and beat mostly everyone. If it’s just about being a man and fighting everyone, win or lose, then are we talking about the likes of Emmanuel Augustus and DeMarcus Corley? Where do they rank in the ATG list? They fought everyone, right? So then they are ATG’s? That’s not all it takes to be an ATG. Which is my point. It’s extremely difficult to copy an all time great’s career. It’s why they are all time greats. But some fans want to ask fighters to nonchalantly do what the greats did. Like any kid off the streets can waltz into pro boxing and be the next Willie Pep or Pernell Whitaker. Because you know, it’s so easy. Still haven't stepped off that soapbox I see. Bro,. Boxing is a sport. Not every fan will have the same standards and opinions on things. You working your self up for nothing.

All great measures. I suppose the point being made is that you get guys on here labelling a champion as trash because he couldn't match those kind of markers. Those markers are incredibly tough. They're the kind of measures that separate great fighters in their era from legendary fighters overall. Basically, posters on here take a fighter they claim not to rate and then hold them to an incredibly high standard. Why expect that of a guy you don't rate? I'll use Joshua as an example again. He's levels short of ATG on your list, but that in itself is bloody impressive. If you don't rate him, fine, but to not rate him because he hasn't achieved the kind of things that would make him a legend in the history of the sport is ridiculous. And he's still got the opportunity to do them. And the willingness, it seems. Exactly. It’s what I mean. Some boxing fans hold fighters they don’t like to higher standards than fighters they do like. Their demands for certain boxers have malice behind them. But they want to present it like they’re just being a good old boxing fan who just want to see the “best fighting the best”. Except for when it’s there favorite fighter. Some fans make these extremely difficult demands that not even fighters they like can accomplish. And they know it. Which is why they don’t demand the same from fighters they like. That has to be the reason. If that is not, and they are just being naive, thinking anyone can do what the past greats did then they are more lost than I thought. Because ATG’s were not just fighters who fought everyone. They fought everyone and beat mostly everyone. If it’s just about being a man and fighting everyone, win or lose, then are we talking about the likes of Emmanuel Augustus and DeMarcus Corley? Where do they rank in the ATG list? They fought everyone, right? So then they are ATG’s? That’s not all it takes to be an ATG. Which is my point. It’s extremely difficult to copy an all time great’s career. It’s why they are all time greats. But some fans want to ask fighters to nonchalantly do what the greats did. Like any kid off the streets can waltz into pro boxing and be the next Willie Pep or Pernell Whitaker. Because you know, it’s so easy.

They just can’t do it anymore. I wish they could. I prefer fighters get 100 pro fights in. It would be great entertainment, great development, great exposure to boxing. That would be great. But promoters and networks aren’t going to do that anymore. Not enough slots, not enough money. I would love to see Canelo, AJ, Pacquiao, Lomachenko, Lopez, Fury etc. once a week for a whole year. That’s not gonna happen. And that’s not something a fighter can change. Fighters don’t have that kind of leverage on their promoters and networks. The fighters of yesteryear were independent contractors making little money. The fighters today are network or promoter employees that are paid by them to perform like other entertainers. So they minimize damage by having them fight a minimum number of times. It’s not hard to understand. Least it shouldn’t be.

How many top 10 fighters he beat? How many top 10 P4P fighters he beat? How many HOFers he beat? How many titles he won? Who did he win the titles from (paper titles?) How dominant did he look vs top 10 fighters? How many times did he challenge himself? Did he ever move up(not necessary but adds to it)? Who did he fight in each weight class? Did he make an effort at fighting the best and biggest names of his era? If some fights did not happen, why not? Any losses? How bad were the losses? Did he improve after the losses? Did he rematch fighters who beat him or had good performances against him? I don’t think it’s difficult to gauge. I don’t need a reference point to identify a successful career. Boxing could have been invented in the last 20 years and anyone would know who’s successful in that time span. Wlad, Canelo, Pacquiao, Mayweather, Lomachenko, GGG, Hopkins, etc. All great measures. I suppose the point being made is that you get guys on here labelling a champion as trash because he couldn't match those kind of markers. Those markers are incredibly tough. They're the kind of measures that separate great fighters in their era from legendary fighters overall. Basically, posters on here take a fighter they claim not to rate and then hold them to an incredibly high standard. Why expect that of a guy you don't rate? I'll use Joshua as an example again. He's levels short of ATG on your list, but that in itself is bloody impressive. If you don't rate him, fine, but to not rate him because he hasn't achieved the kind of things that would make him a legend in the history of the sport is ridiculous. And he's still got the opportunity to do them. And the willingness, it seems.

How many top 10 fighters he beat? How many top 10 P4P fighters he beat? How many HOFers he beat? How many titles he won? Who did he win the titles from (paper titles?) How dominant did he look vs top 10 fighters? How many times did he challenge himself? Did he ever move up(not necessary but adds to it)? Who did he fight in each weight class? Did he make an effort at fighting the best and biggest names of his era? If some fights did not happen, why not? Any losses? How bad were the losses? Did he improve after the losses? Did he rematch fighters who beat him or had good performances against him? I don’t think it’s difficult to gauge. I don’t need a reference point to identify a successful career. Boxing could have been invented in the last 20 years and anyone would know who’s successful in that time span. Wlad, Canelo, Pacquiao, Mayweather, Lomachenko, GGG, Hopkins, etc. Never thought of it that way, you make an interesting point.

Exactly. I wonder if some of these idiots think Ray Robinson would fight as often if he made the kind of money a Cotto made per fight ( adjusted ), let alone the cash cows. Now if you’re mad a dude like Gary Russell only fights one a year, I get that and agree. If you’re mad Floyd, Manny , canelo or AJ doesn’t fight more than 3 times a year you simply haven’t adjusted to where the sport and society are. They just can’t do it anymore. I wish they could. I prefer fighters get 100 pro fights in. It would be great entertainment, great development, great exposure to boxing. That would be great. But promoters and networks aren’t going to do that anymore. Not enough slots, not enough money. I would love to see Canelo, AJ, Pacquiao, Lomachenko, Lopez, Fury etc. once a week for a whole year. That’s not gonna happen. And that’s not something a fighter can change. Fighters don’t have that kind of leverage on their promoters and networks.

Yeah. I mean it is obvious why fighters can’t fight twice a week anymore. But you will have guys come on here pretending to be tough and crazy, and like they are tougher than pro boxers themselves. It’s amusing. And you see how insulting they become on the internet while arguing for or against a fighter. I mean seriously, I wish boxingscene had an actual physical meeting spot where we can all just box our asses off. That way that poster who is so quick to call others names and insults can finally show the balls he claims some of these pro fighters don’t have. He can show his manliness :lol1: Exactly. I wonder if some of these idiots think Ray Robinson would fight as often if he made the kind of money a Cotto made per fight ( adjusted ), let alone the cash cows. Now if you’re mad a dude like Gary Russell only fights one a year, I get that and agree. If you’re mad Floyd, Manny , canelo or AJ doesn’t fight more than 3 times a year you simply haven’t adjusted to where the sport and society are.

First off, youre an idiot Secondly, fans want fighters to acheive greatness. Naturally they want fighters to do what past greats did AND MORE. If you cant comprehend this then finish your GED Correction, they want SOME fighters to achieve greatness. Lol. I actually smiled at the rest. It’s adorable how you dumb pussies just come here to pick internet fights. Attempt, at least a little bit, to be your nerdy self on here. Seriously. If you are not tough, you are not going to convince someone who deals with murderers for a living. It’s literally my job. So calm your e-thuggery down a bit. You may impress other geeks on here with your tough guy stuff but i’m sorry, I am not impressed. You call yourself a man and have a dick and balls while picking fights on the internet. That’s pathetic.

Part of the problem is some posters can’t grasp that Society and the people who run the sport have changed. The networks treat their top boxers like entertainers not fighters. They fight on certain dates. They don’t fight guys who work for other networks. They don’t fight more than 3 times a year at most. This is exacerbated by a society where there is huge focus on head injuries, concussions, dementia and other long term injuries, long time sports like boxing and football are not the same. Yeah. I mean it is obvious why fighters can’t fight twice a week anymore. But you will have guys come on here pretending to be tough and crazy, and like they are tougher than pro boxers themselves. It’s amusing. And you see how insulting they become on the internet while arguing for or against a fighter. I mean seriously, I wish boxingscene had an actual physical meeting spot where we can all just box our asses off. That way that poster who is so quick to call others names and insults can finally show the balls he claims some of these pro fighters don’t have. He can show his manliness :lol1:

Men were men back then. They fought so often and they fought everyone. You're blind dude... It is extremely hard to be the Joe Louis' and The Ray Robinsons... Yes... That's why there's so few... It is not about fighting everyone. It’s beating everyone like ATG’s did. That’s what’s hard. And yeah they fought so often…but what level of fighters? That’s called padded records. And FYI, I prefer that. I would like that back. Padded records meant you can see fighters more often. You can watch boxing more often. Guys would get developed better. And I am not entirely sure how you can say a man is not a man in boxing today. Most of those top guys you are questioning would probably kick your ass and my ass on the same day. They will probably make you question your manhood after a good beating. Also, do you still box? If so, where do you box? Where do you train? (City/state)

Pac lost 10 rounds to a past prime Floyd. LOL. Pac will be retiring with his last fight being an L to a bum in Ugas. You’re dealing with one of those cum gurgling Manny stans that really doesn’t know anything about boxing other than cum gurgling Manny and being angry that Floyd beat him and is better than him.