Manny Pacquiao is the GOAT.

Won't a Pac fan tell us their TOP 5 ATG list :lol1: ????

Pac must be in equation as what he did was so good people thought he was on peds No I dont trust it myself...

Pac must be in equation as what he did was so good people thought he was on peds

I respect the past and don't disagree with you entirely however let's look at Armstrong and you can't just say, he was a better overall fighter than Pac or even many other modern day fighters when so much has changed since back then. From fighting styles to how fighters train/nutrition, etc. I wish we could almost completely separate historical time periods in boxing that you can't compare athletes from them to now. I completely get what you’re saying I usually never compare fighters with several decades separating, because the sport was so different.

Ray Robinson has a far better resume, fought and beat so many Hall of Famers. 10 I think, including LaMotta, Armstrong, Gavilan, Zivic, Angott, Fullmer, Basilio, Graziano, Olson, Turpin. Ray Leonard beat a prime and undefeated 38-0 Benitez, beat a prime 72-1 and undefeated in 8 years Roberto Duran, beat a peak and 32-0 Thomas Hearns and an 11 year undefeated 62-2 Marvin Hagler. Pacquiao does not have a win that compares to any of the four. What Armstrong did holding three Lineal titles at once from featherweight to welterweight is also essentially unmatchable, it arguably should have been four too as the consensus is he was robbed against Garcia in 1940 at middleweight. Pac is in the conversation but if you know your history, he clearly isn’t the GOAT. One of the very best of the modern era though. I respect the past and don't disagree with you entirely however let's look at Armstrong and you can't just say, he was a better overall fighter than Pac or even many other modern day fighters when so much has changed since back then. From fighting styles to how fighters train/nutrition, etc. I wish we could almost completely separate historical time periods in boxing that you can't compare athletes from them to now.

Those lower divisions don't mean ****, nobody cares about them. Also what about the PED accusations ? You are very wrong to say the lower divisions don't mean ****. In fact, I'm not sure how you can even consider yourself a boxing fan saying something like that. What about the PED accusations? One clown that was scared to death to face Pac in his prime yells, PEDS and you have to believe it? Are you that dumb. What ever happened to PROOF?? Right, nobody cares about that, they rather just jump on a wagon and ride it off the bridge together. Pac has NEVER tested positive. On the contrary, you had Fraud Jr. bust for all kinds of stuff and have it swept under the rug. It's the idea that if you put the noise and attention on someone else, you keep the flashlights and eyeballs off yourself.

hank armstrong held the 126, 135, AND 147 tittles(in the 1 belt, 8 weight class era) at the same time. Then he fought the mw champ of the world and was robbed due to the fight being declared a draw. Being that there weren't 17 weight classes in Armstrong's era, he basically would have held titles at 126, 130, 135, 140, 147, 154, and picked up a bs title at 160 if he were fighting today. No, they are not comparable. You cannot compare a 4 belt 17 weight class era to an 8 weight class 1 belt era. Stop the foolishness. If you want to talk boxing history, you've got to learn it first. - - Hank never defended his feather or light titles, ie just some showy bling in his day just like today. His bout with Cerefina Garcia was for the Cali middle title, ie a 10 rd fight, and the fight hotly contested was a DRAW, not for a world title though Garcia then held the recognized NY world title that was split by 3 sanctioning orgs, ie the States, ie not so different than today. Buddysan, time to study up boxing history instead of muddying up boxing hysteria like a school grrl...you're welcome.

He(Turpin) was Western European in fairness. Zivic is probably the closest thing to a great Eastern European fighter on Ray’s record. Even he was more Southern European though. - - Turpin was British...you're welcome.

Back in the day they weren't all gunshy and actually tried to smash each others head and you call it 'sloppy' fighting. When they weren't falling over each other :lol1: Pure slop

Have you seen how sloppy those ''puddem up...puddem up'' old timers were ? And talk about any slob given a license to box. Padded stats started way back then. Fighting once a month :lol1: !!! 2 decent guys, 10 part time bartenders. We have roids, they had The Mob and whatever (else since not much was banned). Roids success rate dwarfs in comparison. That said, Pac is only the GOAT of the Pinoy region. Back in the day they weren't all gunshy and actually tried to smash each others head and you call it 'sloppy' fighting.

those modern day bull**** divisions and weight draining, catchweights, roids, rehydration schemes, etc etc. Just No. Have you seen how sloppy those ''puddem up...puddem up'' old timers were ? And talk about any slob given a license to box. Padded stats started way back then. Fighting once a month :lol1: !!! 2 decent guys, 10 part time bartenders. We have roids, they had The Mob and whatever (else since not much was banned). Roids success rate dwarfs in comparison. That said, Pac is only the GOAT of the Pinoy region.

It’s irrelevant really, I’ve never cared for the he never beat this style, that style argument. Greatness is measured by what you did relevant to your contemporaries. You just need to beat the top fighters of your era regardless of where they’re from. Sure and the boxers from the 1920s etc etc were from a different cloth. I rank them above modern fighters by default.

You could literally kill a player during a game in the NFL and it was legal back in the day. When I was in middle school, the football coach told us one day the object of football is to hurt as many players as possible. There were no 40 year old qbs in the 60s, 70s, 80s, or 90s. YOU CANNOT HIT A QB HARD TODAY!!! It's basically flag football. Sport just evolves though man. You have the same discussion in the NBA, people claim Jordan wouldn’t have survived in Wilts era, LeBron wouldn’t have survived in Jordan’s era, then people switch the argument and say the great big men wouldn’t survive in the pace and space, 3 point era today. Ultimately it comes down to your perspective and criteria for greatness.

quick question.. Where was Randy Turpin from? He was Western European in fairness. Zivic is probably the closest thing to a great Eastern European fighter on Ray’s record. Even he was more Southern European though.

Yes but how many foreign fighters were there back in the day ? The Eastern Euros were not competing. It’s irrelevant really, I’ve never cared for the he never beat this style, that style argument. Greatness is measured by what you did relevant to your contemporaries. You just need to beat the top fighters of your era regardless of where they’re from.

quick question.. Where was Randy Turpin from? Non Soviet.... however Pacroid is nowhere near ATG, those modern day bullshit divisions and weight draining, catchweights, roids, rehydration schemes, etc etc. Just No.

Yes but how many foreign fighters were there back in the day ? The Eastern Euros were not competing. quick question.. Where was Randy Turpin from?

I'd like to see a Pac fan's ATG top 10 :lol1:

I think they’re both firmly in the top 10 tbh. It depends on criteria, but you can make a very strong case for both as top 10. I also have Brady as the GOAT QB but will admit I’m nowhere near as educated on NFL as I am on boxing. For me personally, his longevity stands above any other QB as do his accomplishments. You could literally kill a player during a game in the NFL and it was legal back in the day. When I was in middle school, the football coach told us one day the object of football is to hurt as many players as possible. There were no 40 year old qbs in the 60s, 70s, 80s, or 90s. YOU CANNOT HIT A QB HARD TODAY!!! It's basically flag football.

- - What Manny did for boxing can never be replicated either, ie 6 division titles while traversing 8 divisions setting P4P records never to be broken while wrecking the Amigos and the Crack Daddy Floydy Family. hank armstrong held the 126, 135, AND 147 tittles(in the 1 belt, 8 weight class era) at the same time. Then he fought the mw champ of the world and was robbed due to the fight being declared a draw. Being that there weren't 17 weight classes in Armstrong's era, he basically would have held titles at 126, 130, 135, 140, 147, 154, and picked up a bs title at 160 if he were fighting today. No, they are not comparable. You cannot compare a 4 belt 17 weight class era to an 8 weight class 1 belt era. Stop the foolishness. If you want to talk boxing history, you've got to learn it first.