Eye Test

Why do people put such a huge emphasis on resume today, especially when most boxers don't have the power to pick their opponents? It's not Demetrius Andrade or Charlo's fault that so called p4p guys won't get in the ring with them. Why can't you just recognize talent when you see it? My favorite part is the irony that Andrade and Charlo were supposed to fight but Andrade pulled out. That was the fork in the road fight for him. Had he taken that fight and won his career would be very different. But hey, why take meaningful fight when idiots on the internet will defend you because you passed their eye test.

? Is this kinda new? In my day the UFC buy ups came in and became champions. You know, Pride MWs becoming UFC LHW champs. I guess to some extent SF given both Rousey and Cain were SF fighters first. They're still buys folks up and now those dudes is ****? Yea back in those days Pride actually had the better fighters. The Rhonda Rousey thing is they built the division for her. I was thinking about guys like Hector Lombard and Ben Askren.

I would say MMA is a great example. There have been unstoppable looking world champs from other organizations that went to the UFC and looked average.

What’s funny is Andrade pulled out of a fight vs Charlo due to money, after agreeing to fight him and agreeing with the money. Baseball minor leagues have lots of great talent, guys who hit .300, hit 10-20 homers (that is a lot for minor leagues), they are clearly amazing athletes. Then they keep rising in the ranks, double A, triple A, they look great. Then go to MLB and they just don’t pan out. That’s what happens when you step up. College/HS football, college/HS basketball...same thing. Boxing has something similar to those sports even in the pros. The pros have a minor league of their own, it’s called good matchmaking. Unlike other pro sports, a pro boxer can go up and down the “minors” and pro ranks at will. Also unlike other pro sports, pro boxers can have championship fights vs minor leaguers and win/defend their titles vs figurative minor leaguers. Amateurs, I won’t even get into that. The New York Yankees players would probably look like a beastly team, way better than they actually are, if they are put against a steady diet of Single-A, double-A and AAA teams. Imagine if the 49ers were able to pick a college football team to face at the Super Bowl. Chances are, they probably win the Super Bowl. That’s boxing.

David Price was a killer, based on the eye test, before he started to fight good competition. He gets clowned now, but many of us old timers on BoxingScene remember quite well the days when he was hyped as the man who would dethrone the Klitschko brothers. Then he fought Tony Thompson and all of his fans disappeared overnight.

David Price was a killer, based on the eye test, before he started to fight good competition.

You need resume to have questions answered. What happens to a power puncher if he gets taken to the late rounds? Does he know how to pace himself? Does he know how to properly fight when he is tired? What happens to an overly speedy guy when he slows down in the second half? Does he become a sitting duck or does he know how to slow down the pace and keep the fight at range? Same with chin. Every elite fighter needs to be able to tank solid punches, we wont about someone's chin if he hasnt faced a proper puncher yet (who can place his punches well).

Some fighters look fantastic until they face a top tier fighter. Having to face fiighters with better experience, chins, resilience, power, stamina, etc. will make you see what they are really made of. Just looking good to second tier fighters is not enough to call a fighter a p4p fighter. Is who you beat and how you beat them.

I do go very much by the eye test when rating how good boxers are today p4p. I do rate the Charlo brothers both very high with Jermall higher. I have seen Andrade fight many times and I don't think he belongs in my top 10 pfp boxers. I think Canelo, GGG and Jermall are all better fighters than Andrade going by the eye test.

Who ALT Account is this?

Eye test is subjective. Resume is objective. Joe Joyce is objectively an Olympic Heavyweight Silver medalist and world ranked professional heavyweight. The eye test? Surely anyone decent will knock him out.

Why do people put such a huge emphasis on resume today, especially when most boxers don't have the power to pick their opponents? It's not Demetrius Andrade or Charlo's fault that so called p4p guys won't get in the ring with them. Why can't you just recognize talent when you see it? - -Heck, them Sissyboys too scared to fight each other. U like Sissyboys?

Why do people put such a huge emphasis on resume today, especially when most boxers don't have the power to pick their opponents? It's not Demetrius Andrade or Charlo's fault that so called p4p guys won't get in the ring with them. Why can't you just recognize talent when you see it? Resume is hugely important. Fans are very fickle and look to much on the last fight but evidence of a quality fighter is consistency over a period of time. Other sports (football, baseball, American football, golf - etc) teams or players can have one off bad or good performances but the best prove so over a period of time. Boxing should be no different, anyone is entitled to a bad performance in my eyes (or can get lucky / put in a superb display equally). It doesn’t mean you can’t recognise talent but I struggle to see the likes of Andrade, Crawford or Charlo as the best or even near it - without proving it. I have the same view in other divisions where many people have based rankings on recent performances e.g heavyweight. I take a more balanced view rather than emphasis on only select fights.

Eye test is subjective. Yes, you know a good fighter when you see them, but you can't possibly know how their skills and character will hold up at a higher level.

You've been here long enough to know that some people care more about race than boxing. Right away! Oh you must hate black people blah blah blah. Of course! I wouldn't expect anything less from those people. Just take a look at how they see GGG. Then listen to them talk about guys like Lara, Andrade, and Devin Haney. They dont care about boxing. They just wanna cry wolf. I agree that there are certainly people like that. I just focus on whoever I can actually talk boxing with.

Another factor is the willingness of those with supposedly equal or better skills to actually get in the ring with you. If you have what appears to be A-level talent and the proven A-level talents won't fight you, then all you can do is dominate C and hopefully B-level talent until you get a shot. In the meantime, it's not really fair to call someone a bum while they are simply dominating the best available competition. You mentioned that skills only take you so far and I would add that the "who has he fought?" or "he's not a draw" excuses have their limits too. You've been here long enough to know that some people care more about race than boxing. Right away! Oh you must hate black people blah blah blah. Of course! I wouldn't expect anything less from those people. Just take a look at how they see GGG. Then listen to them talk about guys like Lara, Andrade, and Devin Haney. They dont care about boxing. They just wanna cry wolf.

some people can see 20/20, some need glasses, some are totally blind it's who u fought, when u fought them, the conditions under which u fought them (travel, turnaround, catch weights, preparation) & the most important thing in close and some not so close fights, the officials on the night

Maybe because guys like Tyson, Hamed, Broner, GGG all looked like the BEST boxer EVER until they weren't... Heart is the one stat you can't put on paper or see fighting BUMS Also a lot of people who knew boxing pointed out weaknesses in those guys before they lost.

Maybe because guys like Tyson, Hamed, Broner, GGG all looked like the BEST boxer EVER until they weren't... Heart is the one stat you can't put on paper or see fighting BUMS Right but like I just said there are plenty of fighters who people predicted would be legit before they ever fought big names. Just cuz GGG didn't look great against Canelo doesn't mean that Andrade won't look great against top comp. I agree with you on the heart thing though.

I appreciate the eye test actually. Resume is for a non-bias argument where as eye test is decidedly bias. You may not like punchers and so will always be overly critical on your eye test. A good resume requires you yield some ground though. That said, Jack Dempsey and Mike Tyson are all the proof in the world what the eye test can do. Casuals do not give a **** about resume, at all. Mike kinda got there but he was already massive. Jack's resume is turds and his fans will defend it with history centered around learned men who watched Jack and praised him, that's just bringing out ye olden eye test. Most people here don't have the balls to attack Dempsey. For good reason, his is probably the single greatest eye test legacy of all time. Keep it on resume and Jack's really a mid tier ATG at best. These are good points, but for everyone who passed the eye test who was eventually exposed for being not as good as people thought, there are also plenty of all time great fighters who people predicted would be all time great fighters before they ever caught a big name.